1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,833 (start) 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.BZ 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.BZ 4 00:00:25,987 --> 00:00:28,654 (clock ticking) 5 00:00:36,924 --> 00:00:40,420 - Clocks ticking all over the world. 6 00:00:40,420 --> 00:00:45,420 - [Narrator] Mechanical clock works, LEDs, liquid quartz, 7 00:00:45,954 --> 00:00:49,537 overgrown sundials, huge, big, small, tiny, 8 00:00:50,984 --> 00:00:54,930 ticking, heartbeat, bombs, countdown to everything. 9 00:00:54,930 --> 00:00:57,719 You see it's all about rhythm. 10 00:00:57,719 --> 00:01:00,386 The beat goes on it's set aside. 11 00:01:04,501 --> 00:01:07,001 (funky music) 12 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:16,900 dreams the skeleton key. 13 00:01:17,757 --> 00:01:20,215 Chaos chants my beautiful ones 14 00:01:20,215 --> 00:01:24,132 my best girls, marry me, wed me to possibility. 15 00:01:27,147 --> 00:01:30,689 I Jacob Marley do take the soul of the night. 16 00:01:30,689 --> 00:01:35,463 The beauty of contradiction and paradox is my bride 17 00:01:35,463 --> 00:01:38,546 she in turn give me a wild wild ride. 18 00:02:05,229 --> 00:02:09,021 - [Interviewer] What would you be doing when you turn 50? 19 00:02:09,021 --> 00:02:11,578 - I've discussed this a lot with my brother. 20 00:02:11,578 --> 00:02:16,479 And we've discussed how when I'm 60 years old actually 21 00:02:16,479 --> 00:02:18,180 how I wanna be living down the house 22 00:02:18,180 --> 00:02:22,122 at the end of the street and at 3 AM there will be 23 00:02:22,122 --> 00:02:25,805 feedback and stuff coming out of the house 24 00:02:25,805 --> 00:02:27,767 and then all the little kids will cross the road 25 00:02:27,767 --> 00:02:30,240 to come out of the, you know when they walk 26 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,506 past my house and I can be as rude and 27 00:02:32,506 --> 00:02:36,923 obstreperous as I like to people because I'll be old. 28 00:02:38,296 --> 00:02:39,484 That's what I want to be doing, 29 00:02:39,484 --> 00:02:42,274 being rude and obstreperous. 30 00:02:42,274 --> 00:02:45,191 (orchestral music) 31 00:03:49,084 --> 00:03:52,216 - Rowland kind of emerged onto the scene 32 00:03:52,216 --> 00:03:54,133 with everything intact. 33 00:03:56,423 --> 00:03:58,948 And I know a lot of people will say this about him 34 00:03:58,948 --> 00:04:02,280 but he was just Rowland, he dressed in a certain way, 35 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,780 he had all his kind of influences in place 36 00:04:08,222 --> 00:04:09,922 he knew exactly the way he wanted to play 37 00:04:09,922 --> 00:04:11,224 he knew exactly the way things, 38 00:04:11,224 --> 00:04:14,128 he felt things should be and should sound 39 00:04:14,128 --> 00:04:17,226 he knew absolutely what he hated and despised 40 00:04:17,226 --> 00:04:19,457 and there was no way ever you could 41 00:04:19,457 --> 00:04:22,207 play him anything to change that. 42 00:04:23,813 --> 00:04:26,932 He was locked into a kind of concrete 43 00:04:26,932 --> 00:04:31,599 point of view about things and this is hugely inspiring. 44 00:04:33,681 --> 00:04:36,764 (punk music playing) 45 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,896 - Around the time I met Nick he was 46 00:04:59,896 --> 00:05:03,563 just starting to take songwriting seriously. 47 00:05:04,596 --> 00:05:05,819 - We just started to hang around 48 00:05:05,819 --> 00:05:08,543 more and more together and become friends. 49 00:05:08,543 --> 00:05:11,183 - are you embarrassed about brushing your teeth? 50 00:05:11,183 --> 00:05:13,183 - No I never brush them. 51 00:05:15,618 --> 00:05:17,535 - Are you a homosexual? 52 00:05:22,781 --> 00:05:23,834 - Spit it out Nick. 53 00:05:23,834 --> 00:05:25,584 - Is punk homosexual? 54 00:05:27,669 --> 00:05:28,502 - Um. 55 00:05:30,310 --> 00:05:32,511 - (mumbles) okay. 56 00:05:32,511 --> 00:05:34,261 - Okay, okay I agree. 57 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,753 - I remember we'd be driving to parties 58 00:05:40,753 --> 00:05:42,535 in the car crammed full of people 59 00:05:42,535 --> 00:05:44,814 and he'd say if we had an accident 60 00:05:44,814 --> 00:05:47,071 the whole future of rock and roll's wiped out. 61 00:05:47,071 --> 00:05:48,917 - And I used to see him when we were out 62 00:05:48,917 --> 00:05:52,334 sort of always on the move always walking 63 00:05:53,192 --> 00:05:56,131 through the crowd with leopard skin shirt 64 00:05:56,131 --> 00:06:00,438 and OCT photos of himself on Model Of Youth. 65 00:06:00,438 --> 00:06:01,707 - He was a bit intimidating 'cause he was 66 00:06:01,707 --> 00:06:04,051 a 16 year old person with this presence 67 00:06:04,051 --> 00:06:04,884 he was telling us that our band wasn't 68 00:06:04,884 --> 00:06:08,085 very good but he liked our talent. 69 00:06:08,085 --> 00:06:10,342 - I didn't really feel like buying it on face value 70 00:06:10,342 --> 00:06:12,406 I think I pretty much told him that at some party 71 00:06:12,406 --> 00:06:14,813 once too you know, well it's about time you did something 72 00:06:14,813 --> 00:06:17,646 rather than just talking the talk. 73 00:06:19,132 --> 00:06:20,304 I hadn't seen much evidence of him 74 00:06:20,304 --> 00:06:22,120 doing anything after a few months he still 75 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,300 I hadn't heard him play a note still. 76 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:27,252 So I was a little dubious about whether there 77 00:06:27,252 --> 00:06:29,016 was anything behind it or whether 78 00:06:29,016 --> 00:06:31,537 he was just a well read dandy. 79 00:06:31,537 --> 00:06:32,875 - [Man] One, two, three, four. 80 00:06:32,875 --> 00:06:35,292 (punk music) 81 00:06:48,336 --> 00:06:51,503 - I met Olly Olsen at a party I think. 82 00:06:54,985 --> 00:06:56,344 - Rowland and I really hit it off 83 00:06:56,344 --> 00:06:58,491 because we were interested in similar things. 84 00:06:58,491 --> 00:07:00,238 We loved bands more like Television 85 00:07:00,238 --> 00:07:01,071 and things like that. 86 00:07:01,071 --> 00:07:03,531 - The day after I met him we formed 87 00:07:03,531 --> 00:07:06,501 the band and wrote a couple of songs. 88 00:07:06,501 --> 00:07:09,291 - And they both were such great song writers 89 00:07:09,291 --> 00:07:13,624 and performers and I can still remember their songs. 90 00:07:16,797 --> 00:07:20,229 - [Interviewer] What kind of music does your band play? 91 00:07:20,229 --> 00:07:22,172 - It varies a lot, it says a lot 92 00:07:22,172 --> 00:07:24,746 which most nu wave bands would think 93 00:07:24,746 --> 00:07:28,746 was sort of un-energetic and sort of ideas type. 94 00:07:33,062 --> 00:07:36,344 We're much more based on ideas than most other bands. 95 00:07:36,344 --> 00:07:37,414 - [Interviewer] What kinds of ideas? 96 00:07:37,414 --> 00:07:39,200 Are they largely destructive ideas? 97 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:40,798 - No. - No. 98 00:07:40,798 --> 00:07:41,652 Not at all. 99 00:07:41,652 --> 00:07:42,711 - Pretentious. 100 00:07:42,711 --> 00:07:44,348 - Incredibly. 101 00:07:44,348 --> 00:07:45,181 - They were pretentious little gits 102 00:07:45,181 --> 00:07:47,294 but you know it's all right. 103 00:07:47,294 --> 00:07:50,964 - They were absolutely consumed by themselves. 104 00:07:50,964 --> 00:07:53,868 - Inspired and confident, just sort of 105 00:07:53,868 --> 00:07:56,391 taking his rightful place as a kind of 106 00:07:56,391 --> 00:08:00,369 heir to a throne of fame and creative glory. 107 00:08:00,369 --> 00:08:03,438 - Everyone was waiting for it to all come together 108 00:08:03,438 --> 00:08:05,268 and it was just the inevitability 109 00:08:05,268 --> 00:08:06,589 that it was gonna be genius. 110 00:08:06,589 --> 00:08:10,256 (Young Charlatans playing ) 111 00:08:15,450 --> 00:08:16,752 - [Interviewer] What are some of the (mumbles) 112 00:08:16,752 --> 00:08:18,701 - Model of youth. 113 00:08:18,701 --> 00:08:20,681 - Seems so distant. 114 00:08:20,681 --> 00:08:22,848 - My Empire, Broken Hands. 115 00:08:24,623 --> 00:08:25,745 - [Interviewer] What's Broken Hands about? 116 00:08:25,745 --> 00:08:27,167 - Self mutilation. 117 00:08:27,167 --> 00:08:28,601 - Suddenly The Young Charlatans were along 118 00:08:28,601 --> 00:08:31,335 with these amazing songs and The Boys Next Door 119 00:08:31,335 --> 00:08:35,394 songs started changing pretty dramatically 120 00:08:35,394 --> 00:08:36,547 at the same time. 121 00:08:36,547 --> 00:08:41,301 - Two guitarists both incredibly strong great players. 122 00:08:41,301 --> 00:08:43,872 Two songwriters who wrote similar 123 00:08:43,872 --> 00:08:46,710 but quite different material. 124 00:08:46,710 --> 00:08:49,285 There was like this tension and that tension 125 00:08:49,285 --> 00:08:53,773 created this energy that wasn't necessarily in your face 126 00:08:53,773 --> 00:08:56,905 but it just, it's underlying edge was just magical. 127 00:08:56,905 --> 00:09:00,488 (Young Charlatans playing) 128 00:09:02,102 --> 00:09:05,503 Olly'd write songs like Accident and Drowned. 129 00:09:05,503 --> 00:09:08,240 Rowland's would be like She's Not The Chosen One 130 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,749 and Broken Hands about punching a wall 131 00:09:11,749 --> 00:09:14,323 because some girl wouldn't go out with him. 132 00:09:14,323 --> 00:09:18,499 And Shivers, which is absolutely romantic. 133 00:09:18,499 --> 00:09:20,476 - [Interviewer] What do you think? 134 00:09:20,476 --> 00:09:24,124 - Songs that mainly have something to do with us. 135 00:09:24,124 --> 00:09:26,927 Lots of times there's some played characters and stuff. 136 00:09:26,927 --> 00:09:28,953 - It was always a mystery that 137 00:09:28,953 --> 00:09:30,836 Young Charlatans survived as long as it did. 138 00:09:30,836 --> 00:09:35,169 - We did 13 gigs I think and then Olly left the band 139 00:09:36,875 --> 00:09:38,885 for what was like the fourth time 140 00:09:38,885 --> 00:09:41,718 and it seemed like little point in 141 00:09:43,175 --> 00:09:47,758 continuing this sort of cycle of Olly leaving the band. 142 00:09:49,181 --> 00:09:53,348 (Shivers by The Young Charlatans) 143 00:10:05,219 --> 00:10:10,219 ♪ I've been contemplating suicide ♪ 144 00:10:12,182 --> 00:10:17,182 ♪ But it really doesn't suit my style ♪ 145 00:10:18,928 --> 00:10:23,928 ♪ So I think I'll just act bored instead ♪ 146 00:10:26,405 --> 00:10:31,072 ♪ And contain the blood I would've shed ♪ 147 00:10:32,627 --> 00:10:36,038 - When I was 16 when I was still at 148 00:10:36,038 --> 00:10:38,651 Swinburne Community School I wrote 149 00:10:38,651 --> 00:10:40,991 this song Shivers which was intended 150 00:10:40,991 --> 00:10:44,357 as an ironic comment on the way that I felt 151 00:10:44,357 --> 00:10:48,929 that the people I knew were making hysterical 152 00:10:48,929 --> 00:10:52,343 thing what were essentially high school crushes. 153 00:10:52,343 --> 00:10:55,031 It started off being a very cynical song 154 00:10:55,031 --> 00:10:59,024 about their behaviour and the way that they 155 00:10:59,024 --> 00:11:02,107 talked and acted about being in love. 156 00:11:03,217 --> 00:11:05,659 Which I found to be incredibly insincere 157 00:11:05,659 --> 00:11:08,826 and really blown out of all proportion 158 00:11:10,374 --> 00:11:13,541 although I'm hardly one who can speak, 159 00:11:15,812 --> 00:11:17,664 I have a little glass heart 160 00:11:17,664 --> 00:11:19,679 pinned to my sleeve most of the time. 161 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,492 - He wrote Shivers when he was 16. 162 00:11:21,492 --> 00:11:23,855 This is really extraordinary that song. 163 00:11:23,855 --> 00:11:25,780 The chorus gets where I can hardly even speak, 164 00:11:25,780 --> 00:11:27,978 I hardly even say that chorus 'cause it's 165 00:11:27,978 --> 00:11:31,031 just so great and so moving. 166 00:11:31,031 --> 00:11:36,031 (Shivers by Rowland Howard with The Boys Next Door playing) 167 00:11:41,215 --> 00:11:44,434 ♪ And the sound of her name ♪ 168 00:11:44,434 --> 00:11:49,184 ♪ Sends a permanent shiver down my spine ♪ 169 00:11:54,731 --> 00:11:57,767 - Then when it was recorded by The Boys Next Door 170 00:11:57,767 --> 00:12:01,893 Nick sort of interpreted it completely differently 171 00:12:01,893 --> 00:12:05,393 and now the song is to most people's minds 172 00:12:06,664 --> 00:12:09,419 is something completely different 173 00:12:09,419 --> 00:12:13,181 from what I intended it to be but that's 174 00:12:13,181 --> 00:12:15,585 always the danger of writing anything 175 00:12:15,585 --> 00:12:18,656 is it's open to interpretation. 176 00:12:18,656 --> 00:12:21,695 - I used to dread Shivers coming up in the set 177 00:12:21,695 --> 00:12:26,134 'cause it required a certain amount of efficiency 178 00:12:26,134 --> 00:12:28,719 it required a certain amount of talent to sing 179 00:12:28,719 --> 00:12:32,136 'cause it had a kind of melody and stuff. 180 00:12:32,998 --> 00:12:37,998 ♪ My heart is really on it's knees ♪ 181 00:12:41,957 --> 00:12:46,957 ♪ But I keep a poker face so well ♪ 182 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:56,080 ♪ That even mother couldn't tell ♪ 183 00:12:58,804 --> 00:13:03,107 ♪ That my baby's so vain ♪ 184 00:13:03,107 --> 00:13:07,886 ♪ That she is almost a mirror ♪ 185 00:13:07,886 --> 00:13:09,809 ♪ And the-- ♪ 186 00:13:09,809 --> 00:13:12,726 - Like most songs that people write 187 00:13:13,667 --> 00:13:15,203 and particularly songs I write 188 00:13:15,203 --> 00:13:17,513 they take upon a life of their own 189 00:13:17,513 --> 00:13:20,596 and that song just happened to convey 190 00:13:23,071 --> 00:13:27,571 a sense of sincerity about... in the most obvious way. 191 00:13:29,921 --> 00:13:34,921 ♪ I've been contemplating suicide ♪ 192 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,660 ♪ But it really doesn't suit my style ♪ 193 00:13:47,297 --> 00:13:49,409 - It was tongue in cheek 194 00:13:49,409 --> 00:13:52,921 it wasn't a straightforward help me I'm so 195 00:13:52,921 --> 00:13:56,921 sensitive thing there were layers to it I think. 196 00:13:59,372 --> 00:14:01,205 - When you're very young and you start out 197 00:14:01,205 --> 00:14:03,964 you have incredibly strong beliefs and 198 00:14:03,964 --> 00:14:06,767 you tend to do things that are very forceful 199 00:14:06,767 --> 00:14:09,767 and very focused I guess because you 200 00:14:10,939 --> 00:14:13,939 know what is black and what is white 201 00:14:15,611 --> 00:14:18,577 and there's absolutely no grey area whatsoever. 202 00:14:18,577 --> 00:14:20,994 (rock music) 203 00:14:30,047 --> 00:14:32,451 - That it was something that was so total 204 00:14:32,451 --> 00:14:34,447 and that's so loved by everybody 205 00:14:34,447 --> 00:14:36,214 and that kind of talked to everybody 206 00:14:36,214 --> 00:14:37,483 and all of that stuff that a 207 00:14:37,483 --> 00:14:39,744 great song should be able to do. 208 00:14:39,744 --> 00:14:42,003 But on the other hand you write that 209 00:14:42,003 --> 00:14:44,479 you can hang your fucking guitar up 210 00:14:44,479 --> 00:14:46,164 and go and do something else. 211 00:14:46,164 --> 00:14:48,331 It's just so accomplished. 212 00:14:51,673 --> 00:14:53,521 ♪ My heart is in ♪ 213 00:14:53,521 --> 00:14:55,876 - I suggested that in the interest of 214 00:14:55,876 --> 00:14:58,966 making the record that Rowland's voice 215 00:14:58,966 --> 00:15:02,068 sounded really good doing Rowland's songs. 216 00:15:02,068 --> 00:15:04,147 But I was voted out by Nick who said 217 00:15:04,147 --> 00:15:07,787 I'm the singer I'll sing the songs". 218 00:15:07,787 --> 00:15:10,691 ♪ But my baby's so vain ♪ 219 00:15:10,691 --> 00:15:14,665 ♪ That she is almost a mirror ♪ 220 00:15:14,665 --> 00:15:18,479 ♪ And the sound of her name ♪ 221 00:15:18,479 --> 00:15:22,224 ♪ Sends a permanent shiver ♪ 222 00:15:22,224 --> 00:15:23,759 - I was never able to do that 223 00:15:23,759 --> 00:15:26,592 song justice especially back then. 224 00:15:29,009 --> 00:15:29,963 Rowland must have been kind of 225 00:15:29,963 --> 00:15:32,546 squirming every time I sang it. 226 00:15:39,351 --> 00:15:44,351 - It was never turned out the way that I wanted it to be. 227 00:15:44,435 --> 00:15:48,352 And so it was a sort of frustrating experience. 228 00:15:54,863 --> 00:15:58,613 - I really wish he had of sung that actually. 229 00:16:00,435 --> 00:16:03,273 I wish he had have sung that when we recorded that 230 00:16:03,273 --> 00:16:07,690 because it was his song and he should have sung that. 231 00:16:18,620 --> 00:16:21,370 (birds chirping) 232 00:16:22,514 --> 00:16:24,514 - Rose thorn rose thorn. 233 00:16:31,802 --> 00:16:34,052 God how she overwhelmed me. 234 00:16:36,488 --> 00:16:41,155 The magic of details rose from her like cigarette smoke. 235 00:16:42,772 --> 00:16:47,150 I reach out and grab her perfume around me like armour. 236 00:16:47,150 --> 00:16:49,400 This black Irish sorceress. 237 00:16:52,328 --> 00:16:56,661 I hear her voice deep in her throat calling my name. 238 00:17:03,712 --> 00:17:04,629 Sweetheart. 239 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,823 Despite the lazy cat grace walk 240 00:17:11,099 --> 00:17:14,932 she's at my side now I could not raise my eyes 241 00:17:17,155 --> 00:17:18,988 could not look at her. 242 00:17:22,352 --> 00:17:24,269 Rose Thorn, Rose Thorn. 243 00:17:27,165 --> 00:17:28,165 I miss that. 244 00:17:29,853 --> 00:17:32,853 (gentle rock music) 245 00:17:41,885 --> 00:17:46,424 ♪ I know a girl called Jonny ♪ 246 00:17:46,424 --> 00:17:49,213 ♪ She's a bullet , she's a villainess ♪ 247 00:17:49,213 --> 00:17:54,213 ♪ In my sIlver dress I'm the disastress ♪ 248 00:17:55,664 --> 00:17:59,506 ♪ Combing out her long straight hair ♪ 249 00:17:59,506 --> 00:18:01,538 ♪ Jonny bangs the drum ♪ 250 00:18:01,538 --> 00:18:03,535 ♪ Jonny bangs the drum ♪ 251 00:18:03,535 --> 00:18:06,074 ♪ Jonny bangs the drum ♪ 252 00:18:06,074 --> 00:18:07,478 ♪ Jonny bangs the drum ♪ 253 00:18:07,478 --> 00:18:12,327 ♪ She's my narcotic lollipop ♪ ♪I put my fingers in his mouth ♪ 254 00:18:12,327 --> 00:18:16,735 ♪ ♪ She's my narcotic lollipop ♪ ♪I put my fingers in his mouth ♪ 255 00:18:16,735 --> 00:18:21,735 ♪ ♪ She's my narcotic lollipop ♪ ♪I put my fingers in his mouth ♪ 256 00:18:31,467 --> 00:18:32,933 - I think Rowland was in love with 257 00:18:32,933 --> 00:18:35,031 very much every woman he ever met. 258 00:18:35,031 --> 00:18:37,341 - God yeah, he was really, he was just 259 00:18:37,341 --> 00:18:40,328 always insanely in love with somebody 260 00:18:40,328 --> 00:18:42,155 who wasn't in love with him. 261 00:18:42,155 --> 00:18:44,962 - And that's why all of his songs are about pining. 262 00:18:44,962 --> 00:18:46,317 - He was very passionate about 263 00:18:46,317 --> 00:18:48,710 things and very deeply romantic. 264 00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:50,375 - Tragic romantic. 265 00:18:50,375 --> 00:18:52,191 - He had a mad crush on Gina. 266 00:18:52,191 --> 00:18:54,223 - Gina Riley that's right Kath And Kim. 267 00:18:54,223 --> 00:18:55,873 - It might have been Janine, 268 00:18:55,873 --> 00:18:57,655 he was really crazy about Janine. 269 00:18:57,655 --> 00:19:00,590 It might have been Lisa it might have been Anita. 270 00:19:00,590 --> 00:19:02,817 - Broken Hands was about Lisa Creswell. 271 00:19:02,817 --> 00:19:04,005 - As soon as he went to art school 272 00:19:04,005 --> 00:19:06,051 he met Lisa and Anita and was instantly 273 00:19:06,051 --> 00:19:08,180 in love with Lisa and then in love with Anita. 274 00:19:08,180 --> 00:19:10,688 - They were all in love with the other one. 275 00:19:10,688 --> 00:19:12,620 - I was at this party that Rowland was at 276 00:19:12,620 --> 00:19:15,739 and a bunch of us was at and the music 277 00:19:15,739 --> 00:19:18,692 was very very loud I remember. 278 00:19:18,692 --> 00:19:20,775 And Anita Lane walked in. 279 00:19:22,287 --> 00:19:24,787 - She was, you know, stunning. 280 00:19:29,912 --> 00:19:32,646 - We started to have this conversation together 281 00:19:32,646 --> 00:19:36,015 and all I remember was that I couldn't 282 00:19:36,015 --> 00:19:38,127 understand a word that she was saying 283 00:19:38,127 --> 00:19:39,565 'cause the music was so loud. 284 00:19:39,565 --> 00:19:41,840 - Nick and Rowly and Pierre 285 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,671 was sort of a bit of a threesome. 286 00:19:43,671 --> 00:19:45,271 - By the end of that conversation 287 00:19:45,271 --> 00:19:47,795 we were boyfriend and girlfriend. 288 00:19:47,795 --> 00:19:51,511 - [Woman] They're all tall and dark and hilarious. 289 00:19:51,511 --> 00:19:56,261 - Rowland also was very interested in Anita romantically. 290 00:19:58,771 --> 00:20:00,091 - I would have thought so 291 00:20:00,091 --> 00:20:02,750 I mean everyone did I certainly was. 292 00:20:02,750 --> 00:20:04,463 - The first time I ever saw Rowly he was 293 00:20:04,463 --> 00:20:06,737 playing pinball with Janine, 294 00:20:06,737 --> 00:20:08,837 the bass player on The Esplanade. 295 00:20:08,837 --> 00:20:10,535 - Rowland was in love with Janine. 296 00:20:10,535 --> 00:20:13,813 - I remember thinking that Janine was really old 297 00:20:13,813 --> 00:20:16,206 'cause she was like 25 or something. 298 00:20:16,206 --> 00:20:20,324 - She was really kind of disdainful of Rowland 299 00:20:20,324 --> 00:20:24,093 being such a sensitive slim young fellow. 300 00:20:24,093 --> 00:20:26,836 - He was quite a frail person. 301 00:20:26,836 --> 00:20:28,185 - [Woman] I don't think people 302 00:20:28,185 --> 00:20:31,534 sometimes realised how he felt. 303 00:20:31,534 --> 00:20:33,954 - Didn't have that primitive thing going on. 304 00:20:33,954 --> 00:20:36,835 ♪ Changing all the boys into girls ♪ 305 00:20:36,835 --> 00:20:41,305 ♪ She's my narcotic lollipop ♪ ♪I put my fingers in his mouth ♪ 306 00:20:41,305 --> 00:20:45,396 ♪ She's my narcotic lollipop ♪ ♪I put my fingers in his mouth ♪ 307 00:20:45,396 --> 00:20:48,427 - he had a crush on me but I at that stage 308 00:20:48,427 --> 00:20:52,197 I just thought he was like 17 or so he seemed. 309 00:20:52,197 --> 00:20:56,030 - Genevieve somehow found her way into the mix 310 00:21:01,926 --> 00:21:03,908 And I started going out with Genevieve. 311 00:21:03,908 --> 00:21:05,781 - I went out with Nick for about two minutes 312 00:21:05,781 --> 00:21:10,434 and during that time Rowly became my best friend 313 00:21:10,434 --> 00:21:13,451 he was always there because of Nick. 314 00:21:13,451 --> 00:21:16,542 - Then she started going out with Rowland. 315 00:21:16,542 --> 00:21:20,816 - He became my confidante and he was fantastic. 316 00:21:20,816 --> 00:21:23,935 - And then I went back with Anita I think 317 00:21:23,935 --> 00:21:25,791 something happened like that. 318 00:21:25,791 --> 00:21:29,415 - I'd go to parties and he'd be sort of 319 00:21:29,415 --> 00:21:32,739 always hanging on the clothesline 320 00:21:32,739 --> 00:21:35,508 or leaning up against a speaker beside me 321 00:21:35,508 --> 00:21:38,207 sort of entertaining me with a 322 00:21:38,207 --> 00:21:41,249 dry commentary on the proceedings. 323 00:21:41,249 --> 00:21:43,569 - Rowland finally got a fantastic girlfriend 324 00:21:43,569 --> 00:21:45,568 an amazing girl who he was in love with 325 00:21:45,568 --> 00:21:47,134 fell in love with him. 326 00:21:47,134 --> 00:21:49,552 - He was standing on top of a really tall stool 327 00:21:49,552 --> 00:21:52,220 on top of a table and I was hanging 328 00:21:52,220 --> 00:21:54,311 onto his legs and looking up and I suddenly 329 00:21:54,311 --> 00:21:57,394 just knew that I was totally smitten. 330 00:21:58,688 --> 00:22:01,188 - As a couple they were a trip 331 00:22:02,676 --> 00:22:03,509 (laughs) 332 00:22:03,509 --> 00:22:05,923 - And then that was another kind of creative team. 333 00:22:05,923 --> 00:22:09,256 - And were inseparable and impenetrable. 334 00:22:12,248 --> 00:22:14,290 - And it was just bliss. 335 00:22:14,290 --> 00:22:17,790 We were so happy and comfortable together. 336 00:22:18,701 --> 00:22:23,701 - They wanted to get married like that (clicks fingers) 337 00:22:24,128 --> 00:22:26,335 they weren't practical enough. 338 00:22:26,335 --> 00:22:27,681 - He was very happy. 339 00:22:27,681 --> 00:22:28,848 - Yeah he was. 340 00:22:31,292 --> 00:22:34,266 And I think Genevieve was too she seems-- 341 00:22:34,266 --> 00:22:35,099 - Yeah. 342 00:22:35,099 --> 00:22:37,947 - Surprised that she suddenly realised-- 343 00:22:37,947 --> 00:22:39,864 - It was him all along. 344 00:22:41,373 --> 00:22:46,082 ♪ Oh my oh my I've had a vision and it's looking very grim ♪ 345 00:22:46,082 --> 00:22:51,082 ♪ Brush my hair, cut my teeth, sign my life away ♪ 346 00:22:51,147 --> 00:22:55,524 ♪ The Christian thing to do would be to take my time ♪ 347 00:22:55,524 --> 00:22:57,249 - He was a real definitely a courtship 348 00:22:57,249 --> 00:22:59,267 on from Nick to Rowland. 349 00:22:59,267 --> 00:23:04,267 ♪ The kitchen door is locked I can't hear a sound ♪ 350 00:23:04,659 --> 00:23:07,498 ♪ Press me down, cut me up if you're lucky then ♪ 351 00:23:07,498 --> 00:23:10,127 - But I think it was doubt because he had this 352 00:23:10,127 --> 00:23:12,820 other thing planned for himself. 353 00:23:12,820 --> 00:23:13,903 His own star. 354 00:23:15,899 --> 00:23:17,712 ♪ Take my pulse again ♪ 355 00:23:17,712 --> 00:23:20,212 (piano plays) 356 00:23:22,087 --> 00:23:25,875 (Boys Next Door playing) 357 00:23:25,875 --> 00:23:28,792 ♪ A Catholic scam ♪ 358 00:23:32,932 --> 00:23:36,520 - Rowland's influence within the band was massive. 359 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:37,446 - and all of a sudden there was 360 00:23:37,446 --> 00:23:39,172 this other dimension to the band. 361 00:23:39,172 --> 00:23:41,218 - The sound was so much more interesting. 362 00:23:41,218 --> 00:23:42,782 - I think he gave them a bit of an edge. 363 00:23:42,782 --> 00:23:44,060 - It was magic. 364 00:23:44,060 --> 00:23:45,391 - I think he moves them right away 365 00:23:45,391 --> 00:23:47,366 from being a sort of power pop band 366 00:23:47,366 --> 00:23:50,815 into being a band that was a lot more experimental. 367 00:23:50,815 --> 00:23:51,801 - So it was just something that was 368 00:23:51,801 --> 00:23:54,599 truly original and extraordinary about 369 00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:56,947 what Rowland brought to the band 370 00:23:56,947 --> 00:24:00,690 that changed the sound and widened the options 371 00:24:00,690 --> 00:24:02,446 of what that band could actually achieve. 372 00:24:02,446 --> 00:24:04,940 - He was playing Hair Shirt I think 373 00:24:04,940 --> 00:24:08,998 and suddenly the noises started emitting. 374 00:24:08,998 --> 00:24:10,969 - Switched all of the vibrato on 375 00:24:10,969 --> 00:24:14,858 and just went onto this feedback kind of thing 376 00:24:14,858 --> 00:24:17,711 that just sounded amazing it was just incredible 377 00:24:17,711 --> 00:24:21,191 it just kind of turned this wall of explosives 378 00:24:21,191 --> 00:24:23,857 which we hadn't really heard before it was quite exciting. 379 00:24:23,857 --> 00:24:27,107 (distorted rock music) 380 00:24:48,161 --> 00:24:50,685 - He developed, almost from the beginning 381 00:24:50,685 --> 00:24:52,194 had a guitar sound that was 382 00:24:52,194 --> 00:24:56,181 absolutely unique it was extraordinary. 383 00:24:56,181 --> 00:24:59,431 (distorted rock music) 384 00:25:03,879 --> 00:25:06,069 - There's a line you cross on stage 385 00:25:06,069 --> 00:25:09,319 where you sort of go beyond being aware 386 00:25:12,753 --> 00:25:15,379 of what's going on so much as just 387 00:25:15,379 --> 00:25:18,546 you're not thinking any more about it. 388 00:25:22,121 --> 00:25:23,758 - As soon as he's played two notes 389 00:25:23,758 --> 00:25:24,933 you knew it was Rowland Howard. 390 00:25:24,933 --> 00:25:27,107 There was just a kind of combination of pedals 391 00:25:27,107 --> 00:25:32,107 and guitar and the way he played and that defined the sound. 392 00:25:32,822 --> 00:25:36,475 - There was certainly a way of releasing 393 00:25:36,475 --> 00:25:39,142 a lot of anger and emotions that 394 00:25:40,551 --> 00:25:44,015 I had no other way of releasing. 395 00:25:44,015 --> 00:25:45,191 - You wouldn't have thought Rowly 396 00:25:45,191 --> 00:25:49,626 would be the one to give them some kind of rawness 397 00:25:49,626 --> 00:25:52,615 because people would have thought of him 398 00:25:52,615 --> 00:25:56,110 as the delicate flower and them as the manly types. 399 00:25:56,110 --> 00:25:57,282 - It's almost like The Boys Next Door 400 00:25:57,282 --> 00:26:01,032 sound sort of morphed around Rowland's guitar 401 00:26:03,403 --> 00:26:05,256 and then they sort of became one. 402 00:26:05,256 --> 00:26:08,868 - Suddenly all bets were off and they scampered 403 00:26:08,868 --> 00:26:11,391 down in a different direction. 404 00:26:11,391 --> 00:26:14,666 - One of our records is kind of half recorded 405 00:26:14,666 --> 00:26:16,117 somewhere and the Rowland had joined 406 00:26:16,117 --> 00:26:17,667 and the other half was recorded. 407 00:26:17,667 --> 00:26:20,146 And there's this kind of gulf between 408 00:26:20,146 --> 00:26:23,699 what we were and what we were with Rowland in the band. 409 00:26:23,699 --> 00:26:25,934 - They were signed to Mushroom when I joined the band. 410 00:26:25,934 --> 00:26:28,339 After I joined the band nobody from Mushroom 411 00:26:28,339 --> 00:26:31,172 ever ame to see us which was nice. 412 00:26:32,196 --> 00:26:33,487 - When we went and worked with Tony 413 00:26:33,487 --> 00:26:36,274 on the recordings that became the side B 414 00:26:36,274 --> 00:26:38,114 it was pretty much like the band in the studio 415 00:26:38,114 --> 00:26:40,160 with an engineer who was actually 416 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,419 the craziest member of the band. 417 00:26:42,419 --> 00:26:44,061 - So they just turned up at the studio 418 00:26:44,061 --> 00:26:45,596 Richmond Recorders where I just 419 00:26:45,596 --> 00:26:48,346 happened to be the house engineer 420 00:26:52,195 --> 00:26:53,644 and the rest is history as they say. 421 00:26:53,644 --> 00:26:55,644 - He was just fantastic. 422 00:27:00,750 --> 00:27:02,862 - It was to do with using effects 423 00:27:02,862 --> 00:27:05,131 in a way that no one else had used them. 424 00:27:05,131 --> 00:27:06,782 Like plugging things into each other 425 00:27:06,782 --> 00:27:09,137 that probably shouldn't be plugged into each other 426 00:27:09,137 --> 00:27:11,608 and causing all sorts of feedback 427 00:27:11,608 --> 00:27:13,657 and chaos and things like that. 428 00:27:13,657 --> 00:27:16,824 I suggested using some corrugated iron 429 00:27:17,949 --> 00:27:19,824 to surround his amp and therefore 430 00:27:19,824 --> 00:27:21,885 put contact mics on that. 431 00:27:21,885 --> 00:27:24,479 He loved the idea of that song The Friend Catcher 432 00:27:24,479 --> 00:27:28,686 where he basically did a guitar in one take 433 00:27:28,686 --> 00:27:30,353 without really touching the guitar 434 00:27:30,353 --> 00:27:31,973 which is something I'd never seen before. 435 00:27:31,973 --> 00:27:33,485 He had it all feeding back so it 436 00:27:33,485 --> 00:27:35,272 was just this constant noise. 437 00:27:35,272 --> 00:27:36,501 And every time he hit one of the 438 00:27:36,501 --> 00:27:39,168 switches the noise just changed. 439 00:27:40,332 --> 00:27:44,582 It would go deep it would go high it was symphonic. 440 00:27:47,377 --> 00:27:50,627 (guitar reverberation) 441 00:27:54,422 --> 00:27:56,839 (rock music) 442 00:28:01,703 --> 00:28:03,006 - He was one of the first guitarists 443 00:28:03,006 --> 00:28:05,732 that I didn't know what was going on. 444 00:28:05,732 --> 00:28:06,690 - He sounded totally unique I had 445 00:28:06,690 --> 00:28:08,651 no idea where he was coming from. 446 00:28:08,651 --> 00:28:12,390 - When I heard these guitar songs... 447 00:28:12,390 --> 00:28:13,726 - He was like a guitar hero when there was 448 00:28:13,726 --> 00:28:16,378 there was no guitar heroes. 449 00:28:16,378 --> 00:28:19,406 - Rowland's guitar playing it was not 450 00:28:19,406 --> 00:28:21,989 gently whipping it was hurting. 451 00:28:21,989 --> 00:28:23,015 - It was like some weird science fiction 452 00:28:23,015 --> 00:28:24,594 character playing guitar. 453 00:28:24,594 --> 00:28:25,427 - When we first heard that it 454 00:28:25,427 --> 00:28:26,872 sounded like came from outer space. 455 00:28:26,872 --> 00:28:28,786 - The more I listen to it I realised 456 00:28:28,786 --> 00:28:33,065 all these sort of different degrees of subtlety. 457 00:28:33,065 --> 00:28:34,588 - Who's the guy who plays that guitar? 458 00:28:34,588 --> 00:28:39,514 It has to be him, he looks like that guitar sounds. 459 00:28:39,514 --> 00:28:40,858 - You could tell how sensitive he was 460 00:28:40,858 --> 00:28:43,454 just by the nature of the sounds he created. 461 00:28:43,454 --> 00:28:46,631 - This spectral man suffering from malaria 462 00:28:46,631 --> 00:28:50,298 Rambo pulled from Africa and given a guitar. 463 00:28:51,271 --> 00:28:54,771 (experimental rock music) 464 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,331 - Rowland for a long time kind of hung around 465 00:29:24,331 --> 00:29:27,305 with me at Saints gigs and Radio Birdman gigs 466 00:29:27,305 --> 00:29:29,707 and stuff like that. 467 00:29:29,707 --> 00:29:32,088 And had this perception of me as being 468 00:29:32,088 --> 00:29:34,588 really inarticulate and a punk 469 00:29:35,614 --> 00:29:36,960 or something like that. 470 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,543 And he was kind of impressed by 471 00:29:41,456 --> 00:29:45,123 the kind of idiot savant aspect of my nature 472 00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:48,444 of which I still carry around, 473 00:29:48,444 --> 00:29:50,373 except I've forgotten the savant bit. 474 00:29:50,373 --> 00:29:54,373 Anyway he was kind of I think slightly depressed 475 00:30:00,349 --> 00:30:02,944 and disillusioned when he came over to my house 476 00:30:02,944 --> 00:30:06,176 and found a whole lot of Dostoyevski books on my shelf 477 00:30:06,176 --> 00:30:09,009 he was going "you read this stuff? 478 00:30:10,093 --> 00:30:12,661 "I thought you were for real". 479 00:30:12,661 --> 00:30:15,629 The English language is one of the most 480 00:30:15,629 --> 00:30:18,503 versatile in the world and has such 481 00:30:18,503 --> 00:30:21,753 an enormous history because it's spoken 482 00:30:22,648 --> 00:30:25,576 in so many countries there are so many words 483 00:30:25,576 --> 00:30:28,743 and so many variations and slang words 484 00:30:34,321 --> 00:30:36,821 and ambiguities involved in it 485 00:30:37,785 --> 00:30:41,535 and it just sounds really good when it's sung 486 00:30:42,572 --> 00:30:46,311 there's lots of good words that you can sing 487 00:30:46,311 --> 00:30:49,394 like ectoplasmic and stuff like that. 488 00:30:52,026 --> 00:30:56,276 - We were definitely into the same sorts of things. 489 00:30:57,838 --> 00:31:01,088 Left field literature, that Dadaists... 490 00:31:02,823 --> 00:31:05,573 He himself was a huge Duchamp guy 491 00:31:08,208 --> 00:31:10,708 much more than I was actually. 492 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:13,788 Alfred Jarry. 493 00:31:13,788 --> 00:31:16,788 - Nick and I were heavily influenced 494 00:31:17,660 --> 00:31:20,577 by that type of thing and obviously 495 00:31:21,517 --> 00:31:25,916 the idea of having some kind of school of thought 496 00:31:25,916 --> 00:31:28,337 approach is a very attractive one. 497 00:31:28,337 --> 00:31:30,920 - This had a big influence over 498 00:31:32,138 --> 00:31:35,803 what he did lyrically I think for a long time. 499 00:31:35,803 --> 00:31:37,772 And it had a influence over what I did 500 00:31:37,772 --> 00:31:39,399 lyrically for a shorter time. 501 00:31:39,399 --> 00:31:42,733 I kinda went off onto another tangent completely. 502 00:31:42,733 --> 00:31:44,782 - When I was in The Birthday Party 503 00:31:44,782 --> 00:31:46,909 and to a lesser extent with Crime 504 00:31:46,909 --> 00:31:50,377 I had to learn how to write songs 505 00:31:50,377 --> 00:31:52,960 that were capable of being used 506 00:31:54,990 --> 00:31:57,511 as a vehicle by other people. 507 00:31:57,511 --> 00:32:00,844 So I had to stop writing songs that were 508 00:32:04,456 --> 00:32:07,876 directly from my heart and start writing 509 00:32:07,876 --> 00:32:10,793 things that were far more ambiguous 510 00:32:11,892 --> 00:32:15,592 and could be interpreted by somebody else 511 00:32:15,592 --> 00:32:17,824 as something that they wanted i.e. Nick Cave 512 00:32:17,824 --> 00:32:21,351 as to something that he wanted to represent. 513 00:32:21,351 --> 00:32:23,129 - And he continued to write I think, 514 00:32:23,129 --> 00:32:25,879 these absurdist styles lyrically. 515 00:32:29,151 --> 00:32:32,455 Songs increasingly so actually as the band went on 516 00:32:32,455 --> 00:32:37,455 with kind of quirky guitar lines and absurdist lyrics. 517 00:32:37,677 --> 00:32:39,955 - I found that I'd actually forgotten 518 00:32:39,955 --> 00:32:42,054 how to go about writing more than 519 00:32:42,054 --> 00:32:45,707 a couple of songs every year that were 520 00:32:45,707 --> 00:32:49,362 Rowland Howard songs that express-- 521 00:32:49,362 --> 00:32:51,044 (woman yells) 522 00:32:51,044 --> 00:32:51,988 - Me. 523 00:32:51,988 --> 00:32:54,134 - I became aware of his lyric writing 524 00:32:54,134 --> 00:32:57,049 when begrudgingly The Birthday Party 525 00:32:57,049 --> 00:32:59,748 seemed to do a Rowland song now and then. 526 00:32:59,748 --> 00:33:01,747 And it was very different lyrically 527 00:33:01,747 --> 00:33:03,677 than what Nick Cave was putting across. 528 00:33:03,677 --> 00:33:06,940 They always seemed to be very very romantic. 529 00:33:06,940 --> 00:33:09,648 Like heart not only bleeding but kind of 530 00:33:09,648 --> 00:33:14,101 stabbed in several places and bleeding horribly. 531 00:33:14,101 --> 00:33:15,596 - When I'm writing about certain things 532 00:33:15,596 --> 00:33:17,755 particularly subjects that are 533 00:33:17,755 --> 00:33:20,838 of emotional intensity it's very hard 534 00:33:24,704 --> 00:33:27,689 to write down all these words about 535 00:33:27,689 --> 00:33:31,880 how appealingly tragic your life is (mumbles) 536 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,213 it's hard to take seriously. 537 00:33:35,128 --> 00:33:37,545 Obviously humour is a defence. 538 00:33:39,014 --> 00:33:41,847 (distorted music) 539 00:33:57,110 --> 00:34:00,718 - Really heroin amongst the St. Kilda crowd 540 00:34:00,718 --> 00:34:03,326 was the drug of choice it was cheap, 541 00:34:03,326 --> 00:34:04,940 it was freely available, 542 00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:07,523 it was all over St. Kilda here. 543 00:34:09,926 --> 00:34:11,115 And it was strong. 544 00:34:11,115 --> 00:34:13,203 - Friends of ours were doing it and we happened to 545 00:34:13,203 --> 00:34:16,291 be there at one night when they said "do you want some?" 546 00:34:16,291 --> 00:34:20,162 And we just did it, you know no notion that 547 00:34:20,162 --> 00:34:24,034 it would ever be something in our lives. 548 00:34:24,034 --> 00:34:26,690 - It was very very gradual before people 549 00:34:26,690 --> 00:34:29,821 started to realise that they were actually 550 00:34:29,821 --> 00:34:31,238 thinking about it all the time and it 551 00:34:31,238 --> 00:34:34,489 started to become a daily occurrence. 552 00:34:34,489 --> 00:34:39,072 And then it sort of took over to a really large degree. 553 00:34:50,381 --> 00:34:54,464 ♪ Insect, insect, insect, insect ♪ 554 00:35:00,288 --> 00:35:03,505 - We had this utterly demented idea 555 00:35:03,505 --> 00:35:07,348 that people on the other side of the world 556 00:35:07,348 --> 00:35:12,176 had superior taste than the people that lived here. 557 00:35:12,176 --> 00:35:15,163 - We bought one way tickets and we went to England. 558 00:35:15,163 --> 00:35:19,153 - Nick and I wrote this song called Happy Birthday 559 00:35:19,153 --> 00:35:22,486 and it was originally called The Birthday Party 560 00:35:22,486 --> 00:35:25,286 and we thought that would be a good name for the band. 561 00:35:25,286 --> 00:35:29,536 - We ended up there under really bad circumstances. 562 00:35:34,348 --> 00:35:38,440 - It was just incredibly difficult for the first year. 563 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,848 - Like 10 people living in a one bedroom flat. 564 00:35:42,848 --> 00:35:47,848 - We all stayed there I think with our various girlfriends. 565 00:35:47,894 --> 00:35:52,894 (Nick the Stripper by The Birthday Party plays) 566 00:35:56,188 --> 00:35:58,636 - Taking me to this very dark squat 567 00:35:58,636 --> 00:36:01,826 see the candles burning here and there 568 00:36:01,826 --> 00:36:04,797 and someone would kind of flitter past 569 00:36:04,797 --> 00:36:07,034 that was Anita and then somebody else 570 00:36:07,034 --> 00:36:08,554 saying hi and looking down. 571 00:36:08,554 --> 00:36:11,804 It was just a really weird little scene 572 00:36:13,687 --> 00:36:16,446 the drug thing was all happening. 573 00:36:16,446 --> 00:36:17,862 - It was quite a struggle 'cause we had 574 00:36:17,862 --> 00:36:19,504 to really start from scratch again. 575 00:36:19,504 --> 00:36:21,434 - And none of us had any money 576 00:36:21,434 --> 00:36:24,934 and I got malnutrition it was pretty ugly. 577 00:36:28,174 --> 00:36:30,408 - Rowland took London personally 578 00:36:30,408 --> 00:36:34,741 like as if someone had built it to make him unhappy. 579 00:36:38,312 --> 00:36:40,790 But he may well have taken the world in that way. 580 00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:42,168 - Germaine Greer had said this thing 581 00:36:42,168 --> 00:36:44,727 the in Australia you never feel so lonely as 582 00:36:44,727 --> 00:36:46,958 the first year or so of living in England, 583 00:36:46,958 --> 00:36:48,567 I'd never felt so Australian. 584 00:36:48,567 --> 00:36:52,148 - We went from being big fish in a tiny pond 585 00:36:52,148 --> 00:36:55,815 to being frog spawn in an ocean, it was bad. 586 00:36:58,299 --> 00:37:02,939 - Somehow we'd gone from whatever we were in Australia 587 00:37:02,939 --> 00:37:06,522 on that plane trip once we landed in London 588 00:37:10,594 --> 00:37:14,207 and we kind of absorbed the massive disappointment 589 00:37:14,207 --> 00:37:17,874 of our situation and the absolutely retarded 590 00:37:19,570 --> 00:37:23,498 bands that were playing there at that time. 591 00:37:23,498 --> 00:37:26,338 They were nothing like we thought they were gonna be like. 592 00:37:26,338 --> 00:37:29,516 - Suddenly there a surge of very shiny new pop 593 00:37:29,516 --> 00:37:31,982 with synthesisers and suddenly it was 594 00:37:31,982 --> 00:37:34,476 Boy George and Haircut One Hundred 595 00:37:34,476 --> 00:37:36,970 and Spandau fucking Ballet. 596 00:37:36,970 --> 00:37:39,220 - It was really shoe gazing 597 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,499 bullshit that was going on there. 598 00:37:45,499 --> 00:37:48,457 - But the NME got it wrong and went with this. 599 00:37:48,457 --> 00:37:51,082 I remember distinctly reading certain 600 00:37:51,082 --> 00:37:53,356 people who shall remain nameless 601 00:37:53,356 --> 00:37:55,664 and they embraced it and it was all 602 00:37:55,664 --> 00:37:57,831 cocktails and foppishness. 603 00:37:58,912 --> 00:38:00,215 And I think The Birthday Party was seen 604 00:38:00,215 --> 00:38:03,298 as somehow old fashioned and rockiest 605 00:38:04,581 --> 00:38:05,857 was the term that they used. 606 00:38:05,857 --> 00:38:08,690 - There was a review of one of our 607 00:38:09,824 --> 00:38:13,219 records I think actually, the first record 608 00:38:13,219 --> 00:38:16,136 that said obviously we'd spent time 609 00:38:19,224 --> 00:38:22,022 out on the Nullabor with the natives 610 00:38:22,022 --> 00:38:25,575 or the Aboriginals this was kind of serious. 611 00:38:25,575 --> 00:38:27,897 - We found it rather sick making and 612 00:38:27,897 --> 00:38:30,708 decided that we really had to take out 613 00:38:30,708 --> 00:38:34,118 the metaphorical mallet and hit 614 00:38:34,118 --> 00:38:36,539 our audience over the head with it 615 00:38:36,539 --> 00:38:38,279 to achieve some kind of reaction. 616 00:38:38,279 --> 00:38:42,029 (The Birthday Party playing) 617 00:38:53,282 --> 00:38:56,938 - Epic, grotesque, bizarre, strange, 618 00:38:56,938 --> 00:38:59,356 wonderful, funny characters on stage. 619 00:38:59,356 --> 00:39:02,631 - The rawness and the singularity of what 620 00:39:02,631 --> 00:39:05,286 everyone was doing like Tracey Pew's bass sound 621 00:39:05,286 --> 00:39:09,464 it's just so on it's own and Rowland never really 622 00:39:09,464 --> 00:39:12,375 integrates into the bass he just sits on top. 623 00:39:12,375 --> 00:39:13,473 - One thing The Birthday Party 624 00:39:13,473 --> 00:39:15,723 had was tension, in spades. 625 00:39:17,162 --> 00:39:20,579 - We went to New York in 1981 and the NME 626 00:39:21,539 --> 00:39:25,266 sent a journalist, Barney Hoskins along with us. 627 00:39:25,266 --> 00:39:27,152 I myself had always thought that New York would 628 00:39:27,152 --> 00:39:31,255 be a fairly sophisticated blase sort of place. 629 00:39:31,255 --> 00:39:32,589 And we did our first show and got 630 00:39:32,589 --> 00:39:35,172 thrown off stage in 10 minutes. 631 00:39:35,172 --> 00:39:38,755 And I just thought my god this is all wrong 632 00:39:41,537 --> 00:39:44,537 we've been playing Australia in RSLs 633 00:39:47,468 --> 00:39:49,583 and a hundred miles out of Sydney 634 00:39:49,583 --> 00:39:51,312 and we don't get thrown off stage. 635 00:39:51,312 --> 00:39:53,168 And here we are in New York and we've 636 00:39:53,168 --> 00:39:56,668 had the power turned off after 10 minutes. 637 00:39:57,645 --> 00:40:02,145 Then we did our next gig and this is the literal truth 638 00:40:04,895 --> 00:40:07,985 one person came and that was a Polish girl 639 00:40:07,985 --> 00:40:09,535 I'd met the night before and I said 640 00:40:09,535 --> 00:40:11,554 I'd put her on the guest list. 641 00:40:11,554 --> 00:40:15,583 And then the next gig we did was at The Ritz 642 00:40:15,583 --> 00:40:19,000 which is this really big mafia style club 643 00:40:20,699 --> 00:40:23,544 and they let us play for 15 minutes before they 644 00:40:23,544 --> 00:40:25,588 threw us off stage because they said 645 00:40:25,588 --> 00:40:28,888 that we were trying to incite a riot. 646 00:40:28,888 --> 00:40:30,984 So we'd done three gigs in New York 647 00:40:30,984 --> 00:40:34,837 and played for approximately 25 minutes. 648 00:40:34,837 --> 00:40:37,913 It was really fantastic, it was just great 649 00:40:37,913 --> 00:40:40,596 to have that feeling that you were 650 00:40:40,596 --> 00:40:43,319 capable of upsetting people so much 651 00:40:43,319 --> 00:40:46,702 by the time we'd reached Chicago or LA 652 00:40:46,702 --> 00:40:49,455 we were playing to really packed clubs. 653 00:40:49,455 --> 00:40:51,759 We played The Ritz and they thought we were 654 00:40:51,759 --> 00:40:56,509 gonna 'cause a riot and they escorted us off the premises 655 00:40:57,650 --> 00:41:01,563 with a team of bouncers because we were so 656 00:41:01,563 --> 00:41:04,377 huge and muscular and threatening. 657 00:41:04,377 --> 00:41:07,554 - I think they played again and there was like 2000 people. 658 00:41:07,554 --> 00:41:10,396 And I remember walking up and seeing 659 00:41:10,396 --> 00:41:12,820 the queue go right round the block 660 00:41:12,820 --> 00:41:15,023 and I just thought this is gonna take off 661 00:41:15,023 --> 00:41:17,690 beyond even their comprehension. 662 00:41:18,561 --> 00:41:20,662 - Things would happen and they 663 00:41:20,662 --> 00:41:22,533 would influence us to the extent 664 00:41:22,533 --> 00:41:24,142 that we would reaCt against them 665 00:41:24,142 --> 00:41:26,578 because we usually found them to be 666 00:41:26,578 --> 00:41:29,161 so lacking in any kind of power 667 00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:35,846 in the emotion and things that were being portrayed 668 00:41:35,846 --> 00:41:39,013 and that drove us on towards trying to 669 00:41:41,123 --> 00:41:44,662 make things that were a lot more intense. 670 00:41:44,662 --> 00:41:47,562 - We changed hugely and our live shows 671 00:41:47,562 --> 00:41:50,062 became highly confrontational. 672 00:41:53,536 --> 00:41:57,286 (The Birthday Party playing) 673 00:42:09,718 --> 00:42:11,821 - The more we stuck, ourselves out on a limb 674 00:42:11,821 --> 00:42:14,654 and the more we tend to be abusive 675 00:42:15,908 --> 00:42:19,040 towards particularly the English 676 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,390 people in populous, the more popular we became. 677 00:42:23,390 --> 00:42:25,409 Once we'd finally quit their country 678 00:42:25,409 --> 00:42:28,657 saying that it was a sinking ship 679 00:42:28,657 --> 00:42:30,513 that we were sick of supporting 680 00:42:30,513 --> 00:42:33,308 we became hugely popular. 681 00:42:33,308 --> 00:42:36,058 It was really bizarre in the fact 682 00:42:39,022 --> 00:42:41,939 that insults came back as bouquets. 683 00:42:46,764 --> 00:42:51,067 (The Birthday Party playing) 684 00:42:51,067 --> 00:42:53,925 - They were like exorcisms, personal exorcisms. 685 00:42:53,925 --> 00:42:55,464 - They sometimes seemed to be on the verge 686 00:42:55,464 --> 00:42:59,131 of chaos but never quite falling into chaos. 687 00:43:02,915 --> 00:43:05,686 (Birthday party continues playing) 688 00:43:05,686 --> 00:43:08,440 - They were very very powerful and exciting 689 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,313 and the sound they made was horrendous. 690 00:43:10,313 --> 00:43:12,747 - Totally feral and totally out of control. 691 00:43:12,747 --> 00:43:13,623 - I'd never seen a group that was 692 00:43:13,623 --> 00:43:15,260 so filled with contempt for their own. 693 00:43:15,260 --> 00:43:17,509 - I'm not gonna say scary but... 694 00:43:17,509 --> 00:43:22,509 (The Birthday Party playing experimental rock and screaming) 695 00:44:02,135 --> 00:44:05,682 ♪ Want some more regrets ♪ 696 00:44:05,682 --> 00:44:10,682 ♪ That we have to kill ♪ 697 00:44:11,622 --> 00:44:13,539 ♪ Then ♪ 698 00:44:14,938 --> 00:44:18,355 - We had an enormous amount of hubris and 699 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,067 we were firmly convinced that we 700 00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:29,869 were certainly as good as it got. 701 00:44:30,977 --> 00:44:34,310 - It was for them unheard of that anyone 702 00:44:36,557 --> 00:44:38,022 from Australia would be coming 703 00:44:38,022 --> 00:44:41,537 and playing music and doing shows 704 00:44:41,537 --> 00:44:43,704 that put a great swathe of 705 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,800 English bands into really bad light. 706 00:44:51,341 --> 00:44:53,008 We were just better. 707 00:44:56,157 --> 00:44:57,574 And they knew it. 708 00:45:10,886 --> 00:45:15,886 ♪ Some velvet morning when I'm straight ♪ 709 00:45:19,237 --> 00:45:24,237 ♪ I'm gonna open up your gate ♪ 710 00:45:27,386 --> 00:45:32,386 ♪ And maybe tell you 'bout Phaedra ♪ 711 00:45:33,218 --> 00:45:36,928 ♪ And how she gave me life ♪ 712 00:45:36,928 --> 00:45:41,408 ♪ And how she made it in ♪ 713 00:45:41,408 --> 00:45:43,864 ♪ Some velvet morning-- ♪ 714 00:45:43,864 --> 00:45:47,353 - When we played in Phoenix, Arizona 715 00:45:47,353 --> 00:45:49,469 we played Some Velvet Morning we finished 716 00:45:49,469 --> 00:45:51,689 the song and this boy who was standing up the front 717 00:45:51,689 --> 00:45:56,309 said, "hey you know Lee Hazlewood lives in this town" 718 00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:59,052 and I just went oh my god. 719 00:45:59,052 --> 00:46:00,973 And he goes, "yeah I run this record store 720 00:46:00,973 --> 00:46:03,473 "and he comes in all the time" 721 00:46:05,544 --> 00:46:06,849 and it was just frightening for me 722 00:46:06,849 --> 00:46:09,669 because he's about as close as I come to 723 00:46:09,669 --> 00:46:13,086 having an idol 'cause I think he's one of 724 00:46:14,017 --> 00:46:16,584 the greatest song writers that's ever existed. 725 00:46:16,584 --> 00:46:20,409 - The doorbell rings and it's Lydia Lunch. 726 00:46:20,409 --> 00:46:23,333 And she swans up the stairs and she's 727 00:46:23,333 --> 00:46:27,333 all curves and sex on legs and actually asked me 728 00:46:29,407 --> 00:46:31,732 if I would go out for a while so 729 00:46:31,732 --> 00:46:34,269 that she could talk to Rowland. 730 00:46:34,269 --> 00:46:38,602 And much to my continual bemusement I actually went. 731 00:46:40,717 --> 00:46:43,013 - I had nothing to lose so why not leave 732 00:46:43,013 --> 00:46:45,651 whatever it was I didn't have behind 733 00:46:45,651 --> 00:46:49,401 and go to London to pursue Rowland S. Howard. 734 00:46:50,330 --> 00:46:53,409 - Rowland's vibe as a singer and a guitar player 735 00:46:53,409 --> 00:46:55,225 I thought was really successful the 736 00:46:55,225 --> 00:46:56,797 way he teamed up with Lydia. 737 00:46:56,797 --> 00:46:59,547 - We just felt an immediate bond. 738 00:47:01,042 --> 00:47:05,769 - What made you record These Boots Were Made For Walking? 739 00:47:05,769 --> 00:47:06,852 - Um Rowland. 740 00:47:08,753 --> 00:47:10,895 - They're almost like folk songs 741 00:47:10,895 --> 00:47:13,416 and that's why I think of Lee Hazlewood 742 00:47:13,416 --> 00:47:16,465 songs in particular they have a quality 743 00:47:16,465 --> 00:47:18,805 about them that doesn't pin in 744 00:47:18,805 --> 00:47:21,305 any sphere of time whatsoever. 745 00:47:24,384 --> 00:47:25,714 - Especially with Some Velvet Morning 746 00:47:25,714 --> 00:47:27,249 which is such a perverse song anyway, 747 00:47:27,249 --> 00:47:29,450 Lee Hazlewood being such a perverse songwriter 748 00:47:29,450 --> 00:47:33,337 an American classic of the weirdest order. 749 00:47:33,337 --> 00:47:34,170 ♪ Some velvet morning when I'm straight ♪ 750 00:47:34,170 --> 00:47:35,003 ♪ Flowers growing on the hill ♪ 751 00:47:35,003 --> 00:47:38,670 ♪ Dragonflies and daffodils ♪ 752 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,564 I was the magicians apprentice 753 00:47:59,564 --> 00:48:01,481 fuck I was 12 years old 754 00:48:02,488 --> 00:48:06,905 we were moving all the time Melbourne, London, Berlin 755 00:48:08,384 --> 00:48:10,717 I was his psychotic sidekick 756 00:48:12,376 --> 00:48:15,293 the boy wonder to Modos masked man. 757 00:48:18,044 --> 00:48:21,711 (speaking foreign language) 758 00:48:22,768 --> 00:48:25,184 - We went to Berlin and were kind of 759 00:48:25,184 --> 00:48:27,644 received with open arms into this 760 00:48:27,644 --> 00:48:29,880 community of people that actually 761 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,668 on some level reminded us of Melbourne. 762 00:48:32,668 --> 00:48:36,668 It was frenetic and anarchic and really creative 763 00:48:38,848 --> 00:48:41,848 that didn't have the same prejudices 764 00:48:45,316 --> 00:48:48,066 and the kind of superior way that 765 00:48:52,124 --> 00:48:54,600 the British had about our band. 766 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,683 - Berlin the mid 80s that was a very long story. 767 00:48:59,769 --> 00:49:02,005 I was gone for eight years from Berlin 768 00:49:02,005 --> 00:49:04,168 I lived in America and I returned 769 00:49:04,168 --> 00:49:05,001 in 84 770 00:49:07,588 --> 00:49:09,640 and came back to a different city. 771 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,360 It was a very exciting moment in the history of Berlin. 772 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,595 It was a very lively music scene 773 00:49:15,595 --> 00:49:17,515 and especially this bunch of Australians 774 00:49:17,515 --> 00:49:19,946 who landed from a different planet in Berlin. 775 00:49:19,946 --> 00:49:24,696 - Their appearance almost changed everything in the scene. 776 00:49:25,708 --> 00:49:28,691 Clothes and how to behave and talk 777 00:49:28,691 --> 00:49:31,024 and walk even and look like. 778 00:49:32,712 --> 00:49:34,692 Everyone had that spiky hair 779 00:49:34,692 --> 00:49:36,964 all of a sudden and pointy shoes. 780 00:49:36,964 --> 00:49:39,432 - They looked always like birds to me 781 00:49:39,432 --> 00:49:40,528 especially in the Winter. 782 00:49:40,528 --> 00:49:44,778 Berlin has this incredible amount of Siberian crows 783 00:49:48,268 --> 00:49:50,728 they come in the thousands and they live 784 00:49:50,728 --> 00:49:52,572 in Berlin during the Winter and sometimes 785 00:49:52,572 --> 00:49:56,324 the sky was dark with these black crows 786 00:49:56,324 --> 00:50:00,824 and of course from all that (mumbles) 787 00:50:02,892 --> 00:50:06,432 I don't think anybody wore any other colour than black. 788 00:50:06,432 --> 00:50:09,448 And they had this vampirish life 789 00:50:09,448 --> 00:50:11,156 as soon as daylight came up they were gone 790 00:50:11,156 --> 00:50:15,073 and when the sun went down they showed up again. 791 00:50:16,136 --> 00:50:19,856 - The war was around and it was a tight 792 00:50:19,856 --> 00:50:24,310 group of people and they all took more or less speed. 793 00:50:24,310 --> 00:50:27,536 Whereas the Melbourne crowd they brought 794 00:50:27,536 --> 00:50:30,088 over the heroin into the music scene. 795 00:50:30,088 --> 00:50:32,024 - There was a hush when they showed up somewhere. 796 00:50:32,024 --> 00:50:36,748 They were really big, they were the biggest thing in Berlin. 797 00:50:36,748 --> 00:50:39,370 - [Woman] The Birthday Party were the cool boys 798 00:50:39,370 --> 00:50:41,336 of Berlin for a while and all the 799 00:50:41,336 --> 00:50:42,912 girls wanted to sleep with them 800 00:50:42,912 --> 00:50:44,264 all the German girls. 801 00:50:44,264 --> 00:50:47,876 - Rowland was an important figure for Berliners at the time. 802 00:50:47,876 --> 00:50:50,412 He made legendary sounds and had this 803 00:50:50,412 --> 00:50:53,428 strange stagger on the stage. 804 00:50:53,428 --> 00:50:56,204 He was our Geoffrey Pearson, 805 00:50:56,204 --> 00:50:58,724 we all thought he was even better. 806 00:50:58,724 --> 00:51:00,836 I met him quite often standing at a bar 807 00:51:00,836 --> 00:51:03,713 in some of these clubs after the show. 808 00:51:03,713 --> 00:51:07,708 But he was not talkative, Rowland was not talkative. 809 00:51:07,708 --> 00:51:11,156 - Lydia Lunch was making a record and we 810 00:51:11,156 --> 00:51:14,352 went into this studio called Thomas Funk Studios 811 00:51:14,352 --> 00:51:16,856 in Berlin and there was Blixer all wrapped 812 00:51:16,856 --> 00:51:19,062 up in his rubber suit with his seatbelt 813 00:51:19,062 --> 00:51:22,225 like a beauty queen from another planet. 814 00:51:22,225 --> 00:51:24,431 Nick had made sort of best friends with 815 00:51:24,431 --> 00:51:26,573 Blixer and they were hanging around 816 00:51:26,573 --> 00:51:31,392 and all of a sudden Rowland was just on the out. 817 00:51:31,392 --> 00:51:36,392 - I think Rowland always felt he wasn't being appreciated. 818 00:51:36,672 --> 00:51:38,258 I think he felt as a guitar player he was 819 00:51:38,258 --> 00:51:39,880 but as a song writer et cetera. 820 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,000 - His songs were getting very often into 821 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,580 a place that didn't really suit the band all the time. 822 00:51:45,580 --> 00:51:48,654 - Nick is a very competitive sort of fellow. 823 00:51:48,654 --> 00:51:52,404 Rowland'd sort of probably was quite precious 824 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,904 about the way he wanted his songs. 825 00:51:56,904 --> 00:51:58,644 - We started going in a different direction 826 00:51:58,644 --> 00:52:01,720 lyrically, my lyrical style changed. 827 00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:02,980 - I don't think it was that comfortable 828 00:52:02,980 --> 00:52:05,484 for Nick singing his songs because they 829 00:52:05,484 --> 00:52:07,436 were about subject matter and so forth 830 00:52:07,436 --> 00:52:10,224 that Nick was away from at the time. 831 00:52:10,224 --> 00:52:11,904 - It came to a point where I think 832 00:52:11,904 --> 00:52:14,410 Rowland was really hurt and so he 833 00:52:14,410 --> 00:52:17,620 stopped attending meetings or when wages 834 00:52:17,620 --> 00:52:20,396 were being done would turn up after 835 00:52:20,396 --> 00:52:22,104 the others had left or before the others. 836 00:52:22,104 --> 00:52:23,104 It was hard. 837 00:52:24,024 --> 00:52:27,053 - I think it started being difficult for him 838 00:52:27,053 --> 00:52:29,970 to feel fully realised in the band. 839 00:52:31,856 --> 00:52:35,381 - It came as a bit of a shock that nobody 840 00:52:35,381 --> 00:52:39,714 really vocalised at the time until the last meeting. 841 00:52:41,514 --> 00:52:45,264 - He always thought of them as a sort of gang 842 00:52:47,396 --> 00:52:51,396 it wasn't just music it was everything, friends. 843 00:52:53,124 --> 00:52:57,055 And Rowly just couldn't understand what he's done. 844 00:52:57,055 --> 00:53:00,722 - I just cannot sing anymore of these songs. 845 00:53:02,416 --> 00:53:04,724 It's got to finish. 846 00:53:04,724 --> 00:53:07,980 - Basically a phone call I remember from Nick Harvey 847 00:53:07,980 --> 00:53:10,813 who decided that it wasn't working 848 00:53:13,260 --> 00:53:14,940 or something wasn't working within the group. 849 00:53:14,940 --> 00:53:18,420 Probably quite an astute observation from him. 850 00:53:18,420 --> 00:53:22,648 - Rowland's response was "I'm really surprised". 851 00:53:22,648 --> 00:53:24,076 And I said what are you surprised about?" 852 00:53:24,076 --> 00:53:26,940 And he said "I'm just surprised you did it before me". 853 00:53:26,940 --> 00:53:28,304 - I was happy to go along with anything 854 00:53:28,304 --> 00:53:30,086 but it was like oh, all right. 855 00:53:30,086 --> 00:53:34,124 - Nick was very much like that's a really good idea, 856 00:53:34,124 --> 00:53:37,380 that's a good idea I think that'd be good 857 00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:39,436 it's just the right thing to do 858 00:53:39,436 --> 00:53:40,860 it's kind of running out of steam. 859 00:53:40,860 --> 00:53:43,140 - We're no longer a band and it was a shock 860 00:53:43,140 --> 00:53:44,624 it was a real shock. 861 00:53:44,624 --> 00:53:49,624 - When there's that huge sort of investment in something 862 00:53:49,740 --> 00:53:53,683 and you're just in it and you're in the present 863 00:53:53,683 --> 00:53:56,700 it's very barbaric that's what animals do 864 00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:58,320 they're just in the present and they have 865 00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,261 no future and they don't really care about the past. 866 00:54:02,261 --> 00:54:05,428 (slow guitar playing) 867 00:54:17,968 --> 00:54:20,128 It was the retraction of friendship 868 00:54:20,128 --> 00:54:22,680 or the retraction of warmth or 869 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,683 the lack of connection that really hurt him. 870 00:54:26,683 --> 00:54:28,904 - To our minds we'd been procrastinating 871 00:54:28,904 --> 00:54:32,036 and not really achieving anything for ages 872 00:54:32,036 --> 00:54:34,416 but when I look back on it, 873 00:54:34,416 --> 00:54:38,074 it was literally about four months. 874 00:54:38,074 --> 00:54:41,185 The Birthday Party broke up within a month 875 00:54:41,185 --> 00:54:44,846 or was it two months, Man Or Myth were playing 876 00:54:44,846 --> 00:54:47,104 here in Melbourne which was The Birthday Party 877 00:54:47,104 --> 00:54:51,057 minus myself doing songs that I'd written 878 00:54:51,057 --> 00:54:53,557 which I found fairly appalling. 879 00:54:54,646 --> 00:54:58,304 And I was gotten fairly disillusioned 880 00:54:58,304 --> 00:55:00,032 with things for a long time and I sat 881 00:55:00,032 --> 00:55:01,734 around didn't do anything. 882 00:55:01,734 --> 00:55:04,586 Then one day Mick Harvey rang me up 883 00:55:04,586 --> 00:55:07,927 and he said words to the effect that 884 00:55:07,927 --> 00:55:10,937 I was wasting myself and he was shipping 885 00:55:10,937 --> 00:55:13,476 Simon Bonnett over in a crate from Australia 886 00:55:13,476 --> 00:55:16,143 and would I like to play guitar? 887 00:55:18,446 --> 00:55:21,487 - [Man] Mick Harvey and I had been enormous 888 00:55:21,487 --> 00:55:25,113 admirers of the two very different incarnations 889 00:55:25,113 --> 00:55:27,946 of the group that happened before. 890 00:55:30,397 --> 00:55:32,442 - And then I started seeing two bands 891 00:55:32,442 --> 00:55:35,157 there was Nick And The Bad Seeds who 892 00:55:35,157 --> 00:55:38,148 have Blixa Bargeld as their guitar hero 893 00:55:38,148 --> 00:55:41,686 and there were Crime And City Solutions 894 00:55:41,686 --> 00:55:45,130 with Rowland as their guitar hero. 895 00:55:45,130 --> 00:55:47,067 And you would have thought it would have 896 00:55:47,067 --> 00:55:49,884 been a shame that Birthday Party was gone 897 00:55:49,884 --> 00:55:52,266 but actually it was twice as good. 898 00:55:52,266 --> 00:55:55,257 When I decided to make a film in the city of Berlin 899 00:55:55,257 --> 00:55:59,174 sort of a tribute to Berlin, portrait of Berlin 900 00:56:00,106 --> 00:56:03,988 really was the first idea for Wings Of Desire. 901 00:56:03,988 --> 00:56:06,033 And for a while I didn't have any characters 902 00:56:06,033 --> 00:56:08,835 was just looking for characters to allow me 903 00:56:08,835 --> 00:56:12,073 to show the city in the widest sense. 904 00:56:12,073 --> 00:56:13,965 Until I found my guardian angels. 905 00:56:13,965 --> 00:56:15,804 But one thing was clear from the beginning 906 00:56:15,804 --> 00:56:18,954 both The Bad Seeds and Crime And City Solution 907 00:56:18,954 --> 00:56:20,494 had to be in that movie because 908 00:56:20,494 --> 00:56:22,293 musically that's where Berlin was. 909 00:56:22,293 --> 00:56:24,764 And from behind the band all of a sudden 910 00:56:24,764 --> 00:56:26,496 Rowland was the key character because he was 911 00:56:26,496 --> 00:56:29,296 staggering in front of the camera 912 00:56:29,296 --> 00:56:31,694 and I watched him more than anything else. 913 00:56:31,694 --> 00:56:33,861 It was sort of choreographed the scene 914 00:56:33,861 --> 00:56:36,804 with Rowland and his stagger. 915 00:56:36,804 --> 00:56:38,638 In hindsight Simon was a little disappointed 916 00:56:38,638 --> 00:56:41,107 we were not enough on him. 917 00:56:41,107 --> 00:56:43,114 - It was really nice having the band 918 00:56:43,114 --> 00:56:46,044 captured on film by the man who'd 919 00:56:46,044 --> 00:56:48,508 filmed Beauty And The Beast it was great. 920 00:56:48,508 --> 00:56:50,034 And I think it works far better 921 00:56:50,034 --> 00:56:52,284 than the Bad Seeds sequels. 922 00:56:54,916 --> 00:56:56,824 - He did shoot The Beauty And The Beast 923 00:56:56,824 --> 00:56:59,956 in my book is still the most glorious black and white film. 924 00:56:59,956 --> 00:57:01,704 He made countless movies. 925 00:57:01,704 --> 00:57:03,386 I think Beauty And The Beast is the 926 00:57:03,386 --> 00:57:05,626 black and white masterpiece. 927 00:57:05,626 --> 00:57:09,056 And of course (mumbles) really gave us the look 928 00:57:09,056 --> 00:57:12,938 for ways of design influence the film. 929 00:57:12,938 --> 00:57:15,521 (gentle music) 930 00:57:17,824 --> 00:57:21,534 - I found myself in a group that wasn't 931 00:57:21,534 --> 00:57:24,208 anything like I'd expected it to be 932 00:57:24,208 --> 00:57:29,208 and wasn't really what I wanted to be doing musically. 933 00:57:29,304 --> 00:57:31,456 And there was no room for anything throwaway. 934 00:57:31,456 --> 00:57:34,186 And I really tended to feel like a bit 935 00:57:34,186 --> 00:57:38,036 of a bull in a china shop like if I didn't 936 00:57:38,036 --> 00:57:41,027 restrain myself the whole time 937 00:57:41,027 --> 00:57:44,177 I'd just smash the little glass frame 938 00:57:44,177 --> 00:57:46,344 that held things together. 939 00:57:48,377 --> 00:57:53,277 So it was a really physically uncomfortable thing 940 00:57:53,277 --> 00:57:55,116 (dog barking) 941 00:57:55,116 --> 00:57:57,665 like that dog out there, for me to do 942 00:57:57,665 --> 00:58:00,665 because I just felt really held back 943 00:58:02,374 --> 00:58:04,216 and restrained the entire time. 944 00:58:04,216 --> 00:58:07,151 - I did lose sight of them and Simon 945 00:58:07,151 --> 00:58:10,151 went to Los Angeles and for instance 946 00:58:13,787 --> 00:58:15,906 I never saw These Immortal Souls 947 00:58:15,906 --> 00:58:18,477 although I really liked their music. 948 00:58:18,477 --> 00:58:21,538 And followed Rowland's solo career 949 00:58:21,538 --> 00:58:23,395 and everything he did afterwards 950 00:58:23,395 --> 00:58:25,736 and sort of kept in touch but I never met him again 951 00:58:25,736 --> 00:58:30,236 because he left Berlin and I never ever met him again. 952 00:58:37,708 --> 00:58:42,208 - I'm just waiting for the rest of my peers to get here. 953 00:58:43,294 --> 00:58:45,461 (mumbles) 954 00:58:52,166 --> 00:58:54,107 that is incredibly sophisticated 955 00:58:54,107 --> 00:58:58,447 technology that we use i.e. guitar, bass, drums. 956 00:58:58,447 --> 00:59:01,562 - Then came These Immortal Souls 957 00:59:01,562 --> 00:59:05,222 and it was just wow, it's Rowland. 958 00:59:05,222 --> 00:59:06,464 There he is. 959 00:59:06,464 --> 00:59:07,297 - Ready? 960 00:59:08,283 --> 00:59:13,116 (Rock music These Immortal Souls playing) 961 00:59:52,676 --> 00:59:54,566 it was a really easy group to form 962 00:59:54,566 --> 00:59:56,754 because as soon as we started playing together 963 00:59:56,754 --> 00:59:58,297 everything sounded really good. 964 00:59:58,297 --> 01:00:00,187 - He loved idiosyncratic playing 965 01:00:00,187 --> 01:00:02,198 and he thought in These Immortal Souls 966 01:00:02,198 --> 01:00:04,542 we were all very idiosyncratic. 967 01:00:04,542 --> 01:00:06,524 - I personally don't find my ideas 968 01:00:06,524 --> 01:00:08,396 interesting enough to think that I 969 01:00:08,396 --> 01:00:11,457 could carry off the whole thing with my ideas 970 01:00:11,457 --> 01:00:13,207 it would just mean that basically 971 01:00:13,207 --> 01:00:15,692 there was no mystery in it for me 972 01:00:15,692 --> 01:00:17,477 because I'd know everything beforehand. 973 01:00:17,477 --> 01:00:19,423 - We immediately started playing with him 974 01:00:19,423 --> 01:00:21,693 when we'd go there and we got SST Records 975 01:00:21,693 --> 01:00:24,076 interested and they released their record here. 976 01:00:24,076 --> 01:00:26,087 - They were always giving us shows. 977 01:00:26,087 --> 01:00:30,587 And I think our first show was supporting Sonic Youth. 978 01:00:33,936 --> 01:00:36,260 - I feel like with this group I have 979 01:00:36,260 --> 01:00:40,843 the support of the other people in the group behind me. 980 01:00:46,970 --> 01:00:50,727 To a certain extent I have a certain amount 981 01:00:50,727 --> 01:00:53,326 of veto power just as the singer in any group does 982 01:00:53,326 --> 01:00:56,126 because if the singer in a group is not convinced 983 01:00:56,126 --> 01:00:58,170 by and idea then obviously they're not going 984 01:00:58,170 --> 01:01:02,106 to do it sincerely and it won't come across well. 985 01:01:02,106 --> 01:01:05,156 Which was a situation I'd run into 986 01:01:05,156 --> 01:01:07,835 in the past quite a few times. 987 01:01:07,835 --> 01:01:10,840 It's just that now I'm in a position to do it myself. 988 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:14,757 (These Immortal Souls playing) 989 01:01:32,610 --> 01:01:33,926 - And then we did other tours of Europe 990 01:01:33,926 --> 01:01:36,180 and we went to America for five weeks 991 01:01:36,180 --> 01:01:37,986 and it was fantastic. 992 01:01:37,986 --> 01:01:41,099 And we got better and better every night that we played. 993 01:01:41,099 --> 01:01:43,288 - These Immortal Souls were a terrific band. 994 01:01:43,288 --> 01:01:46,937 A good gig would be just absolute joy. 995 01:01:46,937 --> 01:01:50,043 - They lyrics still have that real intense 996 01:01:50,043 --> 01:01:53,278 you know, one of his songs weighs ten more pounds 997 01:01:53,278 --> 01:01:58,056 than anybody else's, full of the weight of blood. 998 01:01:58,056 --> 01:02:00,315 - Like showing somebody a song that you've written 999 01:02:00,315 --> 01:02:02,898 I still find it really painful. 1000 01:02:03,991 --> 01:02:08,578 ♪ I was strictly Insomnimaniacla ♪ 1001 01:02:08,578 --> 01:02:11,661 - They were amazing, more than Crime. 1002 01:02:13,772 --> 01:02:16,522 They should have been a big band. 1003 01:02:18,621 --> 01:02:21,262 - I'm trying just to devote all my energies 1004 01:02:21,262 --> 01:02:23,311 towards These Immortal Souls so that people can 1005 01:02:23,311 --> 01:02:26,970 understand and comprehend that this is 1006 01:02:26,970 --> 01:02:31,137 a group that I have and which is a long term thing 1007 01:02:32,864 --> 01:02:35,531 and not just a flash in the pan. 1008 01:02:36,434 --> 01:02:40,634 - He was nearly a good leader but he wasn't quite 1009 01:02:40,634 --> 01:02:44,427 he wasn't very forthcoming with encouragement. 1010 01:02:44,427 --> 01:02:46,140 - He could be a hard task master at rehearsal. 1011 01:02:46,140 --> 01:02:48,890 It was like he had such a defined 1012 01:02:50,041 --> 01:02:52,212 feel or vision of what he wanted. 1013 01:02:52,212 --> 01:02:54,451 - He was really good at first and 1014 01:02:54,451 --> 01:02:57,639 then he became increasingly... 1015 01:02:57,639 --> 01:03:01,056 You could not get a good word out of him. 1016 01:03:02,573 --> 01:03:04,552 And occasionally I would hear something 1017 01:03:04,552 --> 01:03:07,872 from Genevieve, oh that Harry he thinks 1018 01:03:07,872 --> 01:03:10,115 you're a wonderful bass player. 1019 01:03:10,115 --> 01:03:13,344 And you'd think, really that's 1020 01:03:13,344 --> 01:03:15,844 not the impression that I get. 1021 01:03:18,067 --> 01:03:21,744 How did I wind up in the same field as Rowland? 1022 01:03:21,744 --> 01:03:23,911 What a stupid thing to do. 1023 01:03:25,263 --> 01:03:28,777 I don't mind being in Rowland's shadow 1024 01:03:28,777 --> 01:03:32,263 I couldn't care less actually it's a good 1025 01:03:32,263 --> 01:03:35,674 shadow I love Rowland's shadow. 1026 01:03:35,674 --> 01:03:37,757 (laughs) 1027 01:03:39,977 --> 01:03:44,977 (Don't Explain by Nikki Sudden and Rowland S Howard) 1028 01:03:55,204 --> 01:04:00,204 ♪ Hush now ♪ 1029 01:04:00,333 --> 01:04:02,834 ♪ Don't explain ♪ 1030 01:04:02,834 --> 01:04:05,402 - He's playing Glasgow and it 1031 01:04:05,402 --> 01:04:07,333 was him and Nikki Sudden just two guys 1032 01:04:07,333 --> 01:04:09,132 I think Rowland has a gold shirt 1033 01:04:09,132 --> 01:04:11,232 and Nikki Sudden had a gold jacket 1034 01:04:11,232 --> 01:04:12,697 there was a lot of gold on stage. 1035 01:04:12,697 --> 01:04:14,868 Just Rowland and the (mumbles) 1036 01:04:14,868 --> 01:04:17,410 and a twin reverb classic. 1037 01:04:17,410 --> 01:04:21,032 It was free form guitar playing and it was incredible. 1038 01:04:21,032 --> 01:04:24,163 I think I went backstage or maybe seen them in the hall 1039 01:04:24,163 --> 01:04:26,342 but I remember just saying "I wanna fuck you" 1040 01:04:26,342 --> 01:04:28,283 (laughs) 1041 01:04:28,283 --> 01:04:30,950 ♪ Don't explain ♪ 1042 01:04:33,972 --> 01:04:38,220 or something like that, something really really ridiculous 1043 01:04:38,220 --> 01:04:40,902 I fucking love you I wanna fuck you so be it. 1044 01:04:40,902 --> 01:04:42,739 - Nikki and Rowland were very close 1045 01:04:42,739 --> 01:04:43,572 they had toured and they made records 1046 01:04:43,572 --> 01:04:46,090 together so they were very very close. 1047 01:04:46,090 --> 01:04:48,388 You could see they actually really loved each other. 1048 01:04:48,388 --> 01:04:50,923 - I really like what he did then 1049 01:04:50,923 --> 01:04:53,849 and that's a prime example of Rowland being 1050 01:04:53,849 --> 01:04:56,182 super relaxed in the studio. 1051 01:04:57,960 --> 01:04:59,950 - He'd done this song with Nikki, Don't Explain 1052 01:04:59,950 --> 01:05:00,783 a cover of the Billie Holiday track. 1053 01:05:00,783 --> 01:05:02,733 It's my favourite thing he did actually 1054 01:05:02,733 --> 01:05:05,409 and with Nikki who I also love as a friend too 1055 01:05:05,409 --> 01:05:08,475 and I remember Nikki saying "go on sing, sing" 1056 01:05:08,475 --> 01:05:09,912 and Rowland was really reluctant to do 1057 01:05:09,912 --> 01:05:10,871 lead vocals and he was saying "sing". 1058 01:05:10,871 --> 01:05:12,709 And I think it was Nikki's encouragement 1059 01:05:12,709 --> 01:05:14,697 I think Rowland was a bit insecure initially 1060 01:05:14,697 --> 01:05:17,501 but I'm glad he did sing no one else sounds like that. 1061 01:05:17,501 --> 01:05:21,001 ♪ Hush now, don't explain ♪ 1062 01:05:25,463 --> 01:05:28,333 Nikki was obsessed with 19th century Britain 1063 01:05:28,333 --> 01:05:31,661 and 18th century Britain, like colonial Britain. 1064 01:05:31,661 --> 01:05:32,851 Wrote about it all the time and 1065 01:05:32,851 --> 01:05:34,671 like to dress like a dandy and read 1066 01:05:34,671 --> 01:05:36,085 all these old books and stuff. 1067 01:05:36,085 --> 01:05:37,662 He had a huge collection of antiquarian books at the time 1068 01:05:37,662 --> 01:05:39,880 and of course Rowland was like that 1069 01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:41,541 with his cravats and everything and 1070 01:05:41,541 --> 01:05:44,381 his cigarette held just so it was fantastic. 1071 01:05:44,381 --> 01:05:48,195 ♪ You know that I love you ♪ 1072 01:05:48,195 --> 01:05:51,445 ♪ And what loving does ♪ 1073 01:05:52,292 --> 01:05:55,580 - I think that women like that sexuality 1074 01:05:55,580 --> 01:05:59,222 in a far more poignant and sensitive 1075 01:05:59,222 --> 01:06:02,668 and incisive way than any man ever has. 1076 01:06:02,668 --> 01:06:04,715 - Rowland always had good relationships 1077 01:06:04,715 --> 01:06:06,292 with women and saw them as people 1078 01:06:06,292 --> 01:06:07,631 in spite of his mad crushes. 1079 01:06:07,631 --> 01:06:09,626 - They've all been intelligent women 1080 01:06:09,626 --> 01:06:12,109 they've all been very opinionated women 1081 01:06:12,109 --> 01:06:13,840 they've all been very strong 1082 01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:15,949 they've all been very demanding women. 1083 01:06:15,949 --> 01:06:17,858 - I guess he wasn't afraid of my aggressiveness 1084 01:06:17,858 --> 01:06:19,822 the way that some more macho guys 1085 01:06:19,822 --> 01:06:22,081 are very confronted by me. 1086 01:06:22,081 --> 01:06:24,059 - I think that a lot of the best 1087 01:06:24,059 --> 01:06:27,059 singers of all time have been women. 1088 01:06:29,409 --> 01:06:31,409 - when I moved to New Orleans in 1990 1089 01:06:31,409 --> 01:06:34,643 it just seemed to me, urgent that I bring 1090 01:06:34,643 --> 01:06:36,427 Rowland there because it just seemed the 1091 01:06:36,427 --> 01:06:38,582 atmosphere would definitely be conducive 1092 01:06:38,582 --> 01:06:43,379 for the kind of music that we both needed to make together. 1093 01:06:43,379 --> 01:06:45,111 - I remember going to New Orleans and I 1094 01:06:45,111 --> 01:06:47,159 felt more at home than I had anywhere else 1095 01:06:47,159 --> 01:06:50,742 because it had sort of heat and I just felt 1096 01:06:52,965 --> 01:06:57,965 like it was more like my natural environment somehow. 1097 01:06:58,061 --> 01:07:00,421 - He read loads of books that were set around there 1098 01:07:00,421 --> 01:07:02,699 he loved it, it had French influences 1099 01:07:02,699 --> 01:07:05,282 and slave influences and Indian 1100 01:07:07,038 --> 01:07:09,872 just so many things bubbling up. 1101 01:07:09,872 --> 01:07:12,443 - Nature is evident there whereas Europe 1102 01:07:12,443 --> 01:07:14,389 nature's not particularly evident 1103 01:07:14,389 --> 01:07:18,482 not in the same way it is in Australia it was different. 1104 01:07:18,482 --> 01:07:20,409 It was sort of interesting because I'd never 1105 01:07:20,409 --> 01:07:24,203 really considered myself to be Australian before. 1106 01:07:24,203 --> 01:07:28,036 The concept is kind of swap, voodoo, romantic, 1107 01:07:30,242 --> 01:07:33,325 lush, co-mingling of these energies. 1108 01:07:34,689 --> 01:07:37,241 It's great also because the live shows 1109 01:07:37,241 --> 01:07:38,971 were Harry Howard and Rowland Howard 1110 01:07:38,971 --> 01:07:41,512 so that was just a musical sandwich 1111 01:07:41,512 --> 01:07:43,644 that was delectable from the word go. 1112 01:07:43,644 --> 01:07:45,161 - Harry was on the tour as well 1113 01:07:45,161 --> 01:07:47,811 he was playing bass so they were an interesting 1114 01:07:47,811 --> 01:07:51,676 it was interesting to see the two of them 1115 01:07:51,676 --> 01:07:53,691 playing off each other. 1116 01:07:53,691 --> 01:07:56,911 - And Lydia she's got many sides to her personality 1117 01:07:56,911 --> 01:08:00,131 some very sweet and some not so sweet. 1118 01:08:00,131 --> 01:08:04,592 - Harry was very shy and very smart and reserved 1119 01:08:04,592 --> 01:08:07,175 and very un-rock, very straight 1120 01:08:08,741 --> 01:08:10,580 not doing drugs, maybe drinking a little 1121 01:08:10,580 --> 01:08:12,380 and I just threw a knife and it stuck in the wall 1122 01:08:12,380 --> 01:08:14,252 next to his head and I just said, 1123 01:08:14,252 --> 01:08:15,428 I don't even know what I said, 1124 01:08:15,428 --> 01:08:16,548 "don't piss me off Harry". 1125 01:08:16,548 --> 01:08:18,979 Of course he hadn't it was just like... 1126 01:08:18,979 --> 01:08:20,678 Rowland just smiled. 1127 01:08:20,678 --> 01:08:24,595 - Rowland had a pronounced aversion to bananas. 1128 01:08:28,706 --> 01:08:31,456 At first I thought he was kidding 1129 01:08:33,540 --> 01:08:37,211 but whenever bananas would appear in the dressing room 1130 01:08:37,211 --> 01:08:40,544 he would denounce them as an evil fruit 1131 01:08:42,672 --> 01:08:45,090 - She was a good band leader. 1132 01:08:45,090 --> 01:08:48,132 You did get a sense that you were working as a team 1133 01:08:48,132 --> 01:08:50,970 for someone who had high expectations 1134 01:08:50,970 --> 01:08:53,277 and wanted you to do well. 1135 01:08:53,277 --> 01:08:55,679 - I would provoke him with bananas 1136 01:08:55,679 --> 01:08:59,596 I remember one time invading his hotel bedroom 1137 01:09:01,292 --> 01:09:04,375 wearing a crown of a bunch of bananas 1138 01:09:05,702 --> 01:09:08,785 and dancing provocatively on his bed. 1139 01:09:13,281 --> 01:09:16,114 He was horrified, truly horrified. 1140 01:09:19,702 --> 01:09:22,208 - At first it was like immortality 1141 01:09:22,208 --> 01:09:24,958 the sleeping mask, illuminexecnce 1142 01:09:27,016 --> 01:09:31,433 instinct up and down my spine like a big electric cat 1143 01:09:33,492 --> 01:09:37,075 medicinal vapour trailing curls in my nostrils 1144 01:09:40,651 --> 01:09:43,484 my vision tunnels I crash and burn 1145 01:09:47,390 --> 01:09:48,640 one long moment 1146 01:09:51,467 --> 01:09:54,884 (cicada softly chirping) 1147 01:10:02,841 --> 01:10:06,760 - Rowly and I weren't in a very good state 1148 01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,790 health wise I don't think at the time. 1149 01:10:09,790 --> 01:10:13,290 Which must have impacted on things. 1150 01:10:13,290 --> 01:10:17,508 We worked with Tony who was in a similar way. 1151 01:10:17,508 --> 01:10:20,868 - We were spending a lot of time looking for drugs 1152 01:10:20,868 --> 01:10:22,998 and not a lot of time recording. 1153 01:10:22,998 --> 01:10:24,578 In fact I can remember an instance 1154 01:10:24,578 --> 01:10:27,201 of going into the studio and all sitting around 1155 01:10:27,201 --> 01:10:30,841 looking at each other feeling pretty grim 1156 01:10:30,841 --> 01:10:35,512 and going off to score, that has to be about the end of it. 1157 01:10:35,512 --> 01:10:38,382 - His drug use increased around that time 1158 01:10:38,382 --> 01:10:40,328 and he became a bit more chaotic. 1159 01:10:40,328 --> 01:10:45,161 And I became less close with him over that period of time. 1160 01:10:46,886 --> 01:10:49,803 (guitar strumming) 1161 01:11:12,860 --> 01:11:15,200 - At the end of our relationship in London 1162 01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:18,033 I actually said to him a few times 1163 01:11:19,808 --> 01:11:21,920 that I couldn't cope with the lifestyle 1164 01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,302 and the things that I had to do 1165 01:11:24,302 --> 01:11:28,219 rotten jobs I had to have in order to get money 1166 01:11:29,501 --> 01:11:33,542 and suggested that maybe we should part company 1167 01:11:33,542 --> 01:11:37,542 and he hated that, no he didn't want to be left. 1168 01:11:40,510 --> 01:11:43,131 You just can't give up while you're together 1169 01:11:43,131 --> 01:11:46,721 it's just impossible, it's exponentially 1170 01:11:46,721 --> 01:11:50,167 more difficult than giving up alone. 1171 01:11:50,167 --> 01:11:52,834 And one night he'd got something 1172 01:11:53,861 --> 01:11:56,400 and I had been feeling really good 1173 01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:58,518 for about three weeks and I was out with 1174 01:11:58,518 --> 01:12:01,647 Harry and Chris Yuse and a couple of girls 1175 01:12:01,647 --> 01:12:04,711 and I didn't want to go home I didn't want to use. 1176 01:12:04,711 --> 01:12:07,021 I stayed up all night I went to Highgate Cemetery 1177 01:12:07,021 --> 01:12:10,138 in the morning I didn't get home till 11. 1178 01:12:10,138 --> 01:12:12,888 He said Jen I wrote a song and it 1179 01:12:14,301 --> 01:12:17,418 was a song called Shut Me Down. 1180 01:12:17,418 --> 01:12:22,418 ♪ So long soldier ♪ 1181 01:12:23,158 --> 01:12:28,158 ♪ We're deep in dutch ♪ 1182 01:12:29,262 --> 01:12:34,262 ♪ I can't ignore it ♪ 1183 01:12:34,461 --> 01:12:39,461 ♪ I miss you so much ♪ 1184 01:12:40,238 --> 01:12:45,238 ♪ I miss you so much ♪ 1185 01:12:46,431 --> 01:12:49,098 ♪ I miss you so ♪ 1186 01:12:54,658 --> 01:12:56,688 - I just sort of realised that for a long time 1187 01:12:56,688 --> 01:12:58,980 I'd been in England because people had 1188 01:12:58,980 --> 01:13:01,584 been telling me that I needed to be there 1189 01:13:01,584 --> 01:13:04,348 but I was just having a miserable life 1190 01:13:04,348 --> 01:13:07,258 and I just thought this is stupid 1191 01:13:07,258 --> 01:13:11,331 because I'm not playing music because I'm miserable 1192 01:13:11,331 --> 01:13:14,240 I'm here because I'm supposed to be playing music 1193 01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:16,932 so I just moved back to Australia. 1194 01:13:16,932 --> 01:13:20,941 And I just spent too many years away from my family. 1195 01:13:20,941 --> 01:13:22,236 - That was one of the major reasons 1196 01:13:22,236 --> 01:13:25,188 that Rowland came back to Australia 1197 01:13:25,188 --> 01:13:27,330 was to be nearer his mother. 1198 01:13:27,330 --> 01:13:29,988 She was lovely, Lorraine, she was a strange 1199 01:13:29,988 --> 01:13:34,488 mixture of things she was really independent in a way 1200 01:13:36,445 --> 01:13:39,388 I think you'd have to be, married to Jock 1201 01:13:39,388 --> 01:13:43,341 and she used to go on adventures on her own 1202 01:13:43,341 --> 01:13:46,086 which I really admires and Rowly did too. 1203 01:13:46,086 --> 01:13:48,557 - She was very demonstrative and loving 1204 01:13:48,557 --> 01:13:52,108 and would say I love you so much, 1205 01:13:52,108 --> 01:13:54,812 you're so beautiful you can do anything you want 1206 01:13:54,812 --> 01:13:57,391 she'd say, you can do anything at all that you want. 1207 01:13:57,391 --> 01:14:01,467 - His father is just incredibly absent emotionally 1208 01:14:01,467 --> 01:14:05,022 and when you talk to him he's always right. 1209 01:14:05,022 --> 01:14:08,260 - Dad's intrinsic problem of if anyone got close 1210 01:14:08,260 --> 01:14:12,260 to him then they became more threatening to him. 1211 01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:15,890 - I think he adored us when we were little, little 1212 01:14:15,890 --> 01:14:17,902 and once we got to about three and started 1213 01:14:17,902 --> 01:14:21,278 becoming real full people he just couldn't cope 1214 01:14:21,278 --> 01:14:23,903 with us at all, didn't know what to do with us 1215 01:14:23,903 --> 01:14:25,570 and shut down on us. 1216 01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:28,910 - He was so sure that nothing his son could do 1217 01:14:28,910 --> 01:14:32,704 would ever make any impression on anybody else. 1218 01:14:32,704 --> 01:14:35,262 - It's kind of biologically impossible 1219 01:14:35,262 --> 01:14:40,262 to stop seeking your parents approval if you're 4 or 40. 1220 01:14:40,460 --> 01:14:43,187 So he had that ongoing struggle of trying 1221 01:14:43,187 --> 01:14:45,183 to get his dad to acknowledge what he'd done 1222 01:14:45,183 --> 01:14:48,368 and being constantly disappointed that he wasn't. 1223 01:14:48,368 --> 01:14:50,834 Rowland continued to be-- - Hurt. 1224 01:14:50,834 --> 01:14:53,130 - Quite severely hurt sometimes. 1225 01:14:53,130 --> 01:14:55,047 It was very sad to see. 1226 01:14:56,994 --> 01:15:01,494 Rowland sort of retreated more into his creative world. 1227 01:15:03,453 --> 01:15:07,004 He just got closer to mom instead. 1228 01:15:07,004 --> 01:15:10,087 (quirky organ music) 1229 01:15:29,857 --> 01:15:33,197 - I was probably three and he was 1230 01:15:33,197 --> 01:15:36,488 I suppose my mom's boyfriend at the time. 1231 01:15:36,488 --> 01:15:39,326 And so I don't really remember meeting him 1232 01:15:39,326 --> 01:15:42,945 I just kind of, he's basically been 1233 01:15:42,945 --> 01:15:45,966 in my life since I can remember. 1234 01:15:45,966 --> 01:15:47,464 (growling) 1235 01:15:47,464 --> 01:15:48,714 - Are we there? 1236 01:15:49,998 --> 01:15:52,747 - It was very romantic 'cause it was very chaste. 1237 01:15:52,747 --> 01:15:57,164 There was this very old fashioned I guess courtship. 1238 01:16:00,447 --> 01:16:03,575 And I used to drive him to his shows 1239 01:16:03,575 --> 01:16:06,644 and stuff and be a chauffer for him 1240 01:16:06,644 --> 01:16:11,311 once I was single it quickly turned into a relationship. 1241 01:16:13,028 --> 01:16:15,945 (guitar strumming) 1242 01:16:23,094 --> 01:16:27,276 - Rowly would play remarkable sets at these 1243 01:16:27,276 --> 01:16:29,604 various pubs and there would be 1244 01:16:29,604 --> 01:16:33,454 10, 20, 30, 40 or 50 people in the audience. 1245 01:16:33,454 --> 01:16:36,454 ( guitar strumming) 1246 01:16:46,138 --> 01:16:48,416 - Just before we got married in the first year 1247 01:16:48,416 --> 01:16:51,286 of us living together he started writing 1248 01:16:51,286 --> 01:16:53,347 and recording Teenage Snuff Film. 1249 01:16:53,347 --> 01:16:56,622 - There was a point before Teenage Snuff Film 1250 01:16:56,622 --> 01:16:57,455 where I thought I'd really like to 1251 01:16:57,455 --> 01:16:59,244 do something with Rowland because I think 1252 01:16:59,244 --> 01:17:03,661 my bass playing is complementary to his guitar style. 1253 01:17:05,768 --> 01:17:07,028 So I actually wrote a couple of 1254 01:17:07,028 --> 01:17:09,861 bass riffs on my little T84 track. 1255 01:17:12,684 --> 01:17:17,351 One of them was (imitates bass guitar) 1256 01:17:31,233 --> 01:17:32,756 ♪ This is a warning ♪ 1257 01:17:32,756 --> 01:17:34,627 ♪ They're going to hit me ♪ 1258 01:17:34,627 --> 01:17:36,182 ♪ This is a sign ♪ 1259 01:17:36,182 --> 01:17:39,998 ♪ They don't get out of big things ♪ 1260 01:17:39,998 --> 01:17:41,537 - Just kind of called me up and said 1261 01:17:41,537 --> 01:17:43,517 I wanna do this solo album 1262 01:17:43,517 --> 01:17:46,563 I wanna do an album and would you help me? 1263 01:17:46,563 --> 01:17:48,557 And I said, yes. 1264 01:17:48,557 --> 01:17:51,427 - People had said to me look, don't put 1265 01:17:51,427 --> 01:17:53,018 out Rowland's record you'll regret it. 1266 01:17:53,018 --> 01:17:54,124 And I was like, you don't understand 1267 01:17:54,124 --> 01:17:55,748 you think of Rowland as, 1268 01:17:55,748 --> 01:17:58,394 I've known Rowland as a 15 year old kid 1269 01:17:58,394 --> 01:18:00,896 we've got a better relationship than that. 1270 01:18:00,896 --> 01:18:02,436 - Little did I expect that it would be just 1271 01:18:02,436 --> 01:18:04,447 me and him recording all the basic tracks together 1272 01:18:04,447 --> 01:18:07,447 I think apart from two songs I think 1273 01:18:08,316 --> 01:18:10,294 all the basic tracks are just him 1274 01:18:10,294 --> 01:18:12,534 playing guitar and me playing drums. 1275 01:18:12,534 --> 01:18:15,507 ♪ And I tried to speak ♪ 1276 01:18:15,507 --> 01:18:18,340 ♪ But I could not ♪ 1277 01:18:19,567 --> 01:18:21,914 - I just reached a stage where I didn't want 1278 01:18:21,914 --> 01:18:25,061 to have to argue with people about stuff anymore 1279 01:18:25,061 --> 01:18:29,061 I didn't want to have to have three other people 1280 01:18:29,908 --> 01:18:32,517 agree with what I wanted to call the album 1281 01:18:32,517 --> 01:18:35,385 or agree with what songs were on the album 1282 01:18:35,385 --> 01:18:37,762 I wanted to just be able to say this is the song 1283 01:18:37,762 --> 01:18:40,338 and if somebody played something I didn't like 1284 01:18:40,338 --> 01:18:42,317 to be be able to say, well you can't do that. 1285 01:18:42,317 --> 01:18:43,908 - He was making an album so I had 1286 01:18:43,908 --> 01:18:45,154 to have an album as well. 1287 01:18:45,154 --> 01:18:48,706 So I wrote some songs and he would 1288 01:18:48,706 --> 01:18:51,627 fret the chords and I would sit on his lap 1289 01:18:51,627 --> 01:18:54,405 and strum the guitar and that got recorded. 1290 01:18:54,405 --> 01:18:57,238 (Rowland singing) 1291 01:19:00,657 --> 01:19:02,459 - That was a really great time for him 1292 01:19:02,459 --> 01:19:05,209 musically he was really inspired. 1293 01:19:07,887 --> 01:19:09,665 - One of the whole points of the record was 1294 01:19:09,665 --> 01:19:12,748 to retain something of the sparseness 1295 01:19:13,831 --> 01:19:15,917 and the intimacy of the solo shows 1296 01:19:15,917 --> 01:19:19,432 I'd been doing and just to have some 1297 01:19:19,432 --> 01:19:21,568 kind of space in the music. 1298 01:19:21,568 --> 01:19:24,947 I think we achieved that really well 1299 01:19:24,947 --> 01:19:28,377 it was a very simple record and I think it 1300 01:19:28,377 --> 01:19:30,286 was probably the simplest thing I'd ever done. 1301 01:19:30,286 --> 01:19:32,437 - We all lived in a share house in Windsor 1302 01:19:32,437 --> 01:19:34,574 and that was just on constant rotation 1303 01:19:34,574 --> 01:19:36,814 we knew every lyric, we knew it backwards 1304 01:19:36,814 --> 01:19:39,717 and we all were just obsessed with that record. 1305 01:19:39,717 --> 01:19:44,634 (Dead Radio by Teenage Snuff Film playing) 1306 01:19:52,630 --> 01:19:55,739 - I'd lost my brother I'd been quite 1307 01:19:55,739 --> 01:19:58,768 hideously dumped by my boyfriend 1308 01:19:58,768 --> 01:20:01,768 within a year and I was listening to 1309 01:20:04,278 --> 01:20:06,520 Teenage Snuff Film on repeat. 1310 01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:08,690 - And there was just this beautiful ache to 1311 01:20:08,690 --> 01:20:12,629 the way he would put a lyric into a song. 1312 01:20:12,629 --> 01:20:15,590 - Some writing was just beautiful. 1313 01:20:15,590 --> 01:20:18,996 - There was a deadpan sarcasm to his voice 1314 01:20:18,996 --> 01:20:21,763 that really intrigued me that I hadn't heard before. 1315 01:20:21,763 --> 01:20:24,601 I hadn't heard anyone sing like that. 1316 01:20:24,601 --> 01:20:26,122 I found it hilarious actually. 1317 01:20:26,122 --> 01:20:28,554 - There's so much humour in his music. 1318 01:20:28,554 --> 01:20:32,945 There's like, wit while he's ripping your heart out. 1319 01:20:32,945 --> 01:20:36,585 - It just felt like a perfect piece of work 1320 01:20:36,585 --> 01:20:40,052 that captured a moment, the moment could have been 24 hours. 1321 01:20:40,052 --> 01:20:44,719 - Yes put that in your top, I don't know, top 50 easily. 1322 01:20:45,965 --> 01:20:47,981 - 24 hours in the life of Rowland. 1323 01:20:47,981 --> 01:20:49,690 All of this happened. 1324 01:20:49,690 --> 01:20:53,988 - It's an album that seems to have a long term effect-- 1325 01:20:53,988 --> 01:20:56,502 - It's kind of timeless. 1326 01:20:56,502 --> 01:20:59,181 - Yeah it's timeless it's still affecting people now. 1327 01:20:59,181 --> 01:21:02,348 - I don't need religion I've got this. 1328 01:21:03,801 --> 01:21:07,718 (Dead Radio continues playing) 1329 01:21:17,661 --> 01:21:19,164 - We lived with each other and we cared 1330 01:21:19,164 --> 01:21:22,433 we loved each other so I guess he kind of 1331 01:21:22,433 --> 01:21:25,692 just became a parent in a way. 1332 01:21:25,692 --> 01:21:27,802 - Up until that point he adored Rowland 1333 01:21:27,802 --> 01:21:30,065 he was sort of all over him and then 1334 01:21:30,065 --> 01:21:32,304 as soon as we became a couple he 1335 01:21:32,304 --> 01:21:35,231 rejected him pestiferously. 1336 01:21:35,231 --> 01:21:38,292 - It seemed that he could remember very well 1337 01:21:38,292 --> 01:21:40,322 what it was like to be a little kid 1338 01:21:40,322 --> 01:21:42,455 and that it wasn't that far off. 1339 01:21:42,455 --> 01:21:44,242 Rowland looked after Tom during the day. 1340 01:21:44,242 --> 01:21:47,532 So he got him to kinder and picked him up 1341 01:21:47,532 --> 01:21:50,281 and spent more time with him in those 1342 01:21:50,281 --> 01:21:51,841 early years than I did really. 1343 01:21:51,841 --> 01:21:54,742 - We kept devising plans to throw my 1344 01:21:54,742 --> 01:21:58,942 arch nemesis at creche into the bin, Robbie 1345 01:21:58,942 --> 01:22:02,615 and we'd go and go to his house and pretend 1346 01:22:02,615 --> 01:22:07,254 to be cops and scare him and I don't know why 1347 01:22:07,254 --> 01:22:09,792 I didn't like Robbie but I didn't. 1348 01:22:09,792 --> 01:22:11,332 - My fantasy was that Rowland and I 1349 01:22:11,332 --> 01:22:13,781 could at least just live together and 1350 01:22:13,781 --> 01:22:16,354 enjoy our relationship and kind of develop 1351 01:22:16,354 --> 01:22:20,152 that without any other unnecessary stresses. 1352 01:22:20,152 --> 01:22:22,355 - There was lots of murder just in general 1353 01:22:22,355 --> 01:22:26,380 with it was someone a little bit violent 1354 01:22:26,380 --> 01:22:28,744 and it would be boyish violent for me 1355 01:22:28,744 --> 01:22:31,171 and I guess there was a little bit 1356 01:22:31,171 --> 01:22:34,852 of a sinister edge coming from Rowland as well. 1357 01:22:34,852 --> 01:22:37,090 - It was fantastic those early years were 1358 01:22:37,090 --> 01:22:39,470 probably amongst the happiest in my life 1359 01:22:39,470 --> 01:22:40,750 if not the happiest, probably 1360 01:22:40,750 --> 01:22:42,324 the happiest in my life really. 1361 01:22:42,324 --> 01:22:45,441 - I spent a lot of time especially before I was at school 1362 01:22:45,441 --> 01:22:50,164 just the two of us hanging out and that's probably, 1363 01:22:50,164 --> 01:22:54,331 yeah they're my fondest memories is the early days. 1364 01:22:54,331 --> 01:22:56,581 When it was all really fun. 1365 01:22:59,590 --> 01:23:00,463 - [Man] I light another cigarette 1366 01:23:00,463 --> 01:23:02,162 and as I cut my hands around the flame 1367 01:23:02,162 --> 01:23:04,560 the whole place explodes 1368 01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:06,049 but nothing happens a lot around here 1369 01:23:06,049 --> 01:23:09,810 it was just the old lady, the pigeons. 1370 01:23:09,810 --> 01:23:11,861 One of which is the pooch situation 1371 01:23:11,861 --> 01:23:14,008 as I have come to think of it. 1372 01:23:14,008 --> 01:23:16,460 About the dog skull with her walking stick. 1373 01:23:16,460 --> 01:23:21,189 Has up and clamped his spring loaded jaws on the victim. 1374 01:23:21,189 --> 01:23:24,189 Snapping and pumping like breakfast. 1375 01:23:25,581 --> 01:23:27,452 - He had actually spent a couple of years 1376 01:23:27,452 --> 01:23:30,598 writing a novel which was keeping him occupied. 1377 01:23:30,598 --> 01:23:32,439 And he was writing that when I met him. 1378 01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:35,439 - The first one is about someone who 1379 01:23:37,569 --> 01:23:41,032 traverses the realms of reality through 1380 01:23:41,032 --> 01:23:44,602 sleep and dream and it actually helped by a drug 1381 01:23:44,602 --> 01:23:49,019 and his father is someone who sells or makes the drug. 1382 01:23:52,302 --> 01:23:57,302 - [Man] England, go to London, England turn left (mumbles) 1383 01:23:57,939 --> 01:24:00,352 and keep on up to the first bend. 1384 01:24:00,352 --> 01:24:01,598 (voices whisper) 1385 01:24:01,598 --> 01:24:04,431 least appealing part of this place 1386 01:24:05,462 --> 01:24:09,712 I found a strange (voices whisper) 1387 01:24:13,112 --> 01:24:16,383 started to happen when I first started to remember 1388 01:24:16,383 --> 01:24:18,763 find you through the neon signs and the 1389 01:24:18,763 --> 01:24:21,969 weather of the whirlwind (voices whisper) 1390 01:24:21,969 --> 01:24:26,763 shoulders with the gunshot rolling deep across the bay. 1391 01:24:26,763 --> 01:24:29,422 - I think he was only completely drug free 1392 01:24:29,422 --> 01:24:31,780 for a couple of months before he buckled. 1393 01:24:31,780 --> 01:24:35,862 - I didn't find out until after they'd split. 1394 01:24:35,862 --> 01:24:38,362 And then memories came through 1395 01:24:40,603 --> 01:24:42,549 and it kind of all clicked. 1396 01:24:42,549 --> 01:24:45,818 - I tried a million things and suggested that, 1397 01:24:45,818 --> 01:24:50,735 well maybe you could just use every second week or whatever. 1398 01:24:52,573 --> 01:24:56,573 But then I succumbed and got into trouble myself 1399 01:24:57,735 --> 01:25:01,652 and that was the thing that ultimately it meant 1400 01:25:03,601 --> 01:25:05,383 that our marriage had to end. 1401 01:25:05,383 --> 01:25:08,466 (Dead Radio playing) 1402 01:25:22,603 --> 01:25:26,155 - What I do remember is wanting to see Rowland 1403 01:25:26,155 --> 01:25:28,731 and knowing that he felt quite guilty 1404 01:25:28,731 --> 01:25:32,161 and wanting to reassure him that I 1405 01:25:32,161 --> 01:25:34,783 didn't hold anything against him anymore. 1406 01:25:34,783 --> 01:25:38,616 - Until about five years ago I would have said 1407 01:25:40,295 --> 01:25:44,163 that I didn't regret what I've done. 1408 01:25:44,163 --> 01:25:48,205 It was all my time spent taking drugs but now 1409 01:25:48,205 --> 01:25:52,122 I really regret it it's change my life forever. 1410 01:25:58,672 --> 01:26:02,452 And I've just lost so much of my life 1411 01:26:02,452 --> 01:26:05,785 and so much time that I could have spent 1412 01:26:08,435 --> 01:26:13,352 doing things that would have been really meaningful for me. 1413 01:26:19,842 --> 01:26:21,675 It's just been wasted. 1414 01:26:27,633 --> 01:26:30,485 Just a waste, thrown away. 1415 01:26:30,485 --> 01:26:33,068 (quirky music) 1416 01:26:46,266 --> 01:26:49,277 - He used to talk about something called black milk a lot 1417 01:26:49,277 --> 01:26:51,501 and he wrote a song about it and it's not just 1418 01:26:51,501 --> 01:26:55,437 a drug reference it's the whole feeling 1419 01:26:55,437 --> 01:26:58,687 of this thing that's dark and beautiful 1420 01:26:59,586 --> 01:27:02,913 and sort of sticky sweet and hypnotic 1421 01:27:02,913 --> 01:27:05,580 and it sustains you and feeds you 1422 01:27:06,866 --> 01:27:09,507 and makes everything really beautiful and amazing 1423 01:27:09,507 --> 01:27:11,090 but at the same time there's a 1424 01:27:11,090 --> 01:27:13,757 fatal flaw and it's like poison. 1425 01:27:14,688 --> 01:27:19,688 (Autoluminescent by Rowland S Howard playing) 1426 01:27:31,614 --> 01:27:35,711 ♪ I am blinding ♪ 1427 01:27:35,711 --> 01:27:39,580 ♪ Autoluminescent ♪ 1428 01:27:39,580 --> 01:27:43,813 ♪ I am white heat ♪ 1429 01:27:43,813 --> 01:27:48,031 ♪ I am heaven sent ♪ 1430 01:27:48,031 --> 01:27:51,513 ♪ I was a nightmare ♪ 1431 01:27:51,513 --> 01:27:56,044 ♪ But I'm not gonna go there ♪ 1432 01:27:56,044 --> 01:27:58,044 ♪ Again ♪ 1433 01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:04,583 - He seemed so diminished by his heartbreak 1434 01:28:05,878 --> 01:28:07,944 and he kept saying he was a 1435 01:28:07,944 --> 01:28:11,027 three time loser and lost everything. 1436 01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:15,987 I just couldn't see him evicted. 1437 01:28:16,853 --> 01:28:19,200 - They had no choice really in a way 1438 01:28:19,200 --> 01:28:21,867 they were just so closely linked. 1439 01:28:24,675 --> 01:28:29,675 - After about one and a half years he managed to stop using. 1440 01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:31,849 It was an odd time 'cause he was trying 1441 01:28:31,849 --> 01:28:34,766 to get on Inteferon as well and the 1442 01:28:35,963 --> 01:28:39,113 psychiatrist wouldn't let him go on it 1443 01:28:39,113 --> 01:28:42,314 because he had problems and he was still 1444 01:28:42,314 --> 01:28:44,330 sad about his marriage break up 1445 01:28:44,330 --> 01:28:46,920 and Inteferon makes you depressed. 1446 01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:51,031 But eventually he convinced them and by the time 1447 01:28:51,031 --> 01:28:54,023 he was on Inteferon he'd completely stopped. 1448 01:28:54,023 --> 01:28:57,714 ♪ I'm soaring through outer space ♪ 1449 01:28:57,714 --> 01:29:01,461 ♪ There is no better place ♪ 1450 01:29:01,461 --> 01:29:03,461 ♪ To be ♪ 1451 01:29:06,641 --> 01:29:10,734 at first I'd been promising him that he'd feel fantastic 1452 01:29:10,734 --> 01:29:13,729 and he didn't, and he'd say to me 1453 01:29:13,729 --> 01:29:18,479 "you said I was gonna feel much better I feel like crap". 1454 01:29:20,170 --> 01:29:21,691 But he got through it. 1455 01:29:21,691 --> 01:29:25,943 ♪ I'm greater than God in light ♪ 1456 01:29:25,943 --> 01:29:29,690 ♪ I am dangerous ♪ 1457 01:29:29,690 --> 01:29:33,320 ♪ I cut like the sharpest knife ♪ 1458 01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:34,153 (applause) 1459 01:29:34,153 --> 01:29:35,961 - He got every side effect under the sun 1460 01:29:35,961 --> 01:29:38,565 and they wanted to take him off it 1461 01:29:38,565 --> 01:29:41,189 because he got so thin and his bloods 1462 01:29:41,189 --> 01:29:44,356 were all over the place but he insisted 1463 01:29:45,411 --> 01:29:47,180 he wanted to get rid of it and he was 1464 01:29:47,180 --> 01:29:51,930 so pleased he'd got rid of heroin, he'd got rid of Hep C. 1465 01:29:53,317 --> 01:29:57,222 He was still not feeling great but gradually 1466 01:29:57,222 --> 01:30:00,889 about six months after he stopped Interferon 1467 01:30:01,841 --> 01:30:05,096 we moved in here and he started going out, 1468 01:30:05,096 --> 01:30:07,778 he was playing all the time. 1469 01:30:07,778 --> 01:30:10,596 People were responding to him in a really different way. 1470 01:30:10,596 --> 01:30:13,499 People were catching on to the idea that he'd stopped. 1471 01:30:13,499 --> 01:30:16,719 - Rowland would ask me "how do you want this album to sound" 1472 01:30:16,719 --> 01:30:19,640 and I said "I want it to sound like the 1473 01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:24,036 the glass of wine's there and the ashtray's there 1474 01:30:24,036 --> 01:30:25,858 I want it to sound like that". 1475 01:30:25,858 --> 01:30:29,123 And he went, (inhales) "right". 1476 01:30:29,123 --> 01:30:31,752 So he knew what I wanted. 1477 01:30:31,752 --> 01:30:33,833 - He would never want to rehearse though Rowland 1478 01:30:33,833 --> 01:30:36,876 so we had to show up and do everything 1479 01:30:36,876 --> 01:30:40,126 just raw which was kind of infuriating. 1480 01:30:43,838 --> 01:30:45,607 Though it worked out well. 1481 01:30:45,607 --> 01:30:47,987 - He was producing hate rock and he had this 1482 01:30:47,987 --> 01:30:52,404 huge fascination with Jon, just everything about her. 1483 01:30:55,407 --> 01:30:58,114 - We only saw him a couple of hours a day mind you 1484 01:30:58,114 --> 01:31:01,898 he was very very exhausted on Interferon. 1485 01:31:01,898 --> 01:31:05,398 We had him two hours a day, three to five. 1486 01:31:06,273 --> 01:31:09,300 Little cat would stroll into the studio. 1487 01:31:09,300 --> 01:31:11,978 - Having him in the studio was as much about 1488 01:31:11,978 --> 01:31:14,844 his aura as it was about what he was saying. 1489 01:31:14,844 --> 01:31:17,876 - You could actually talk about a concept 1490 01:31:17,876 --> 01:31:21,876 in a much more, on a higher more abstract level. 1491 01:31:24,947 --> 01:31:28,186 - I think we played the song to him once 1492 01:31:28,186 --> 01:31:30,584 and then he just went in there and played it. 1493 01:31:30,584 --> 01:31:32,367 And we were all just sitting in the control room 1494 01:31:32,367 --> 01:31:34,696 just like -- - Oh yeah. 1495 01:31:34,696 --> 01:31:35,834 - Check this out. 1496 01:31:35,834 --> 01:31:37,374 - I think I was just almost laughing 1497 01:31:37,374 --> 01:31:39,192 hysterically how good it was. 1498 01:31:39,192 --> 01:31:40,557 - Sounded great Rowland. 1499 01:31:40,557 --> 01:31:43,057 - I can do better if you want. 1500 01:31:45,107 --> 01:31:47,328 - He mentioned something about Bianca 1501 01:31:47,328 --> 01:31:51,245 meeting this rather tall quite crazy young girl 1502 01:31:52,751 --> 01:31:54,366 and I could tell in his eyes there was a 1503 01:31:54,366 --> 01:31:57,616 certain interest beyond just the fandom 1504 01:31:59,476 --> 01:32:01,786 that I guess he would normally get through his Myspace. 1505 01:32:01,786 --> 01:32:04,172 - I just kind of approached Rowland 1506 01:32:04,172 --> 01:32:06,505 as fan girl ultimate fan girl. 1507 01:32:07,831 --> 01:32:10,108 - Bianca gave Rowland a hug that lasted 1508 01:32:10,108 --> 01:32:12,240 maybe two minutes and Rowland told 1509 01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:14,042 me and Connor that he hadn't been 1510 01:32:14,042 --> 01:32:16,142 hugged like that in maybe six years. 1511 01:32:16,142 --> 01:32:19,780 He finally got the hug that lasted. 1512 01:32:19,780 --> 01:32:21,130 - Went over and said to him 1513 01:32:21,130 --> 01:32:23,581 "I never wanted to be this person but 1514 01:32:23,581 --> 01:32:26,639 "you're just the best person in the whole world". 1515 01:32:26,639 --> 01:32:30,000 And he said, "I don't know about that". 1516 01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:31,630 And I said "but you're the best 1517 01:32:31,630 --> 01:32:33,642 "fucking guitarist in the whole world" 1518 01:32:33,642 --> 01:32:35,739 and he said, "yeah thanks". 1519 01:32:35,739 --> 01:32:37,740 - And that was it he was smitten I'm telling you. 1520 01:32:37,740 --> 01:32:39,121 - They were such a great couple. 1521 01:32:39,121 --> 01:32:42,150 They're tall and they were very commanding 1522 01:32:42,150 --> 01:32:44,036 to see them both together. 1523 01:32:44,036 --> 01:32:47,698 - And after the initial I'm with Rowland S Howard thing 1524 01:32:47,698 --> 01:32:52,510 I didn't really think about that so much anymore. 1525 01:32:52,510 --> 01:32:55,170 It was just the person that I loved. 1526 01:32:55,170 --> 01:32:57,060 - Ah there we go. 1527 01:32:57,060 --> 01:32:59,977 (strumming guitar) 1528 01:33:04,739 --> 01:33:07,210 - Coming along the other side of the bay 1529 01:33:07,210 --> 01:33:09,608 with his arm around a beautiful girl 1530 01:33:09,608 --> 01:33:13,752 and his guitar in hand just swanning along 1531 01:33:13,752 --> 01:33:16,692 was Rowland S Howard true to form. 1532 01:33:16,692 --> 01:33:19,740 - He did have a respect for women too 1533 01:33:19,740 --> 01:33:22,922 I think he just liked them as creatures 1534 01:33:22,922 --> 01:33:25,582 I think he proffered the company of women to men as well. 1535 01:33:25,582 --> 01:33:27,402 - Bianca was fantastic for Rowland 1536 01:33:27,402 --> 01:33:29,046 he had a bit of a spring in his step 1537 01:33:29,046 --> 01:33:32,078 a bit of a strut, he was laughing a lot more 1538 01:33:32,078 --> 01:33:34,962 and he was also far more exhausted 1539 01:33:34,962 --> 01:33:37,099 than I'd seen in a long time. 1540 01:33:37,099 --> 01:33:42,099 - I said to Rowland once, "when do you kind of grow up"? 1541 01:33:42,471 --> 01:33:45,588 And he said, "you're asking the wrong person". 1542 01:33:45,588 --> 01:33:46,951 I don't think that he felt like 1543 01:33:46,951 --> 01:33:49,368 his youth was a lifetime ago. 1544 01:33:50,941 --> 01:33:53,287 - I had some things to do. 1545 01:33:53,287 --> 01:33:56,261 (crowd laughing) 1546 01:33:56,261 --> 01:33:58,048 - [Crowd Member] What? 1547 01:33:58,048 --> 01:33:59,691 - It was a busy eight years. 1548 01:33:59,691 --> 01:34:03,522 I think my particular journey through music 1549 01:34:03,522 --> 01:34:05,920 has been very slow and it's taken me 1550 01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,700 a long time to achieve the confidence 1551 01:34:09,700 --> 01:34:13,168 that I needed to do my best work. 1552 01:34:13,168 --> 01:34:14,829 - He'd been sick for a long time 1553 01:34:14,829 --> 01:34:18,498 and he'd been on Interferon, gotten rid of his hepatitis 1554 01:34:18,498 --> 01:34:21,918 and then he fell in love and then they 1555 01:34:21,918 --> 01:34:23,612 wanted him to make another record 1556 01:34:23,612 --> 01:34:27,882 and he was really happy about where his life was going 1557 01:34:27,882 --> 01:34:30,132 and then he got sick again. 1558 01:34:32,838 --> 01:34:34,798 - Once we were doing the Pop Crimes album 1559 01:34:34,798 --> 01:34:37,628 there was a huge amount of interest suddenly 1560 01:34:37,628 --> 01:34:39,638 this groundswell of interest in what 1561 01:34:39,638 --> 01:34:41,878 Rowland S Howard might be doing this month. 1562 01:34:41,878 --> 01:34:44,178 - There was talk about international tours 1563 01:34:44,178 --> 01:34:46,417 about European tours there was talk 1564 01:34:46,417 --> 01:34:47,972 about American tours there was a 1565 01:34:47,972 --> 01:34:52,084 genuine excitement in the record he'd just made. 1566 01:34:52,084 --> 01:34:54,748 - I've got some new songs tonight 1567 01:34:54,748 --> 01:34:55,798 which is a frightening-- 1568 01:34:55,798 --> 01:34:58,381 (crowd cheers) 1569 01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:03,847 and one that scares me immensely okay. 1570 01:35:05,019 --> 01:35:06,541 - [Band Member] One, two, three, four. 1571 01:35:06,541 --> 01:35:09,458 (rock music plays) 1572 01:35:25,614 --> 01:35:27,998 - He and Brian and Mick were recording the 1573 01:35:27,998 --> 01:35:32,081 basic track and he sort of said you find a sound. 1574 01:35:37,636 --> 01:35:40,244 He found me in the kitchen of Birdland 1575 01:35:40,244 --> 01:35:42,801 with a plastic cup and a mirror 1576 01:35:42,801 --> 01:35:44,307 it sounded like a tortured donkey 1577 01:35:44,307 --> 01:35:47,265 "it sounds terrible, quick record it". 1578 01:35:47,265 --> 01:35:50,848 - Everything was looking up and it was great 1579 01:35:51,778 --> 01:35:54,055 and he was just so pleased just to wake up 1580 01:35:54,055 --> 01:35:58,222 in the morning and feel okay it was such a luxury. 1581 01:36:29,265 --> 01:36:32,514 - I find it remarkable that most people 1582 01:36:32,514 --> 01:36:35,514 don't seem to see the world as being 1583 01:36:39,398 --> 01:36:43,481 essentially a very sad place because I think it is. 1584 01:36:46,643 --> 01:36:48,585 - He wanted to know 'cause he thought 1585 01:36:48,585 --> 01:36:52,188 I could understand because I've been paralysed, 1586 01:36:52,188 --> 01:36:55,478 what do you tell people when you think 1587 01:36:55,478 --> 01:36:57,928 you're never gonna walk or you're gonna die one day, 1588 01:36:57,928 --> 01:36:59,314 what do you tell them? 1589 01:36:59,314 --> 01:37:04,147 - He realised that his last album would be his last album. 1590 01:37:06,327 --> 01:37:08,095 - I know it was enormous help to him me doing it, 1591 01:37:08,095 --> 01:37:11,770 it was a fantastic experience for me too. 1592 01:37:11,770 --> 01:37:14,485 'cause I really liked both the recording sessions 1593 01:37:14,485 --> 01:37:18,352 and got an enormous amount of artistic enjoyment 1594 01:37:18,352 --> 01:37:20,594 out of working on those records. 1595 01:37:20,594 --> 01:37:23,338 - He was really enthusiastic about this record 1596 01:37:23,338 --> 01:37:26,208 and he was really keen to promote it 1597 01:37:26,208 --> 01:37:27,766 and play gigs and it was great 1598 01:37:27,766 --> 01:37:28,975 and there was a whole new audience 1599 01:37:28,975 --> 01:37:30,534 that was coming through and all of 1600 01:37:30,534 --> 01:37:32,867 that was energising for him. 1601 01:37:39,505 --> 01:37:42,359 It was just a shame we had to stop. 1602 01:37:42,359 --> 01:37:45,999 ♪ The night so deep that I trip or drown ♪ 1603 01:37:45,999 --> 01:37:48,999 - One day he was out and I put it on 1604 01:37:49,989 --> 01:37:52,771 and it was just so great and I played it 1605 01:37:52,771 --> 01:37:55,487 over and over again and I always heard 1606 01:37:55,487 --> 01:37:59,477 Rowly come in the door, you know footsteps, keys 1607 01:37:59,477 --> 01:38:01,455 so he must have heard the music from outside 1608 01:38:01,455 --> 01:38:03,588 and sneaked in really quietly. 1609 01:38:03,588 --> 01:38:07,275 And he'd come round behind me in the lounge room 1610 01:38:07,275 --> 01:38:09,832 and I was just sitting at the computer 1611 01:38:09,832 --> 01:38:11,862 playing things over and over again 1612 01:38:11,862 --> 01:38:16,612 and I think saying things like, I don't know, "oh Rowly". 1613 01:38:21,191 --> 01:38:25,191 And then I think Golden Age Of Bloodshed came on 1614 01:38:27,803 --> 01:38:30,470 and I think I started crying and 1615 01:38:31,621 --> 01:38:35,288 all of a sudden he was just there behind me. 1616 01:38:43,111 --> 01:38:47,778 I was really shocked at how much he needed me to like it 1617 01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:53,881 and how pleased he was that I liked it so much. 1618 01:38:53,881 --> 01:38:56,135 And it was just really beautiful. 1619 01:38:56,135 --> 01:38:59,495 ♪ The signs in the sky won't let up ♪ 1620 01:38:59,495 --> 01:39:03,172 ♪ The clouds assume the shape ♪ 1621 01:39:03,172 --> 01:39:07,181 ♪ Of Catholic girls with uzis ♪ 1622 01:39:07,181 --> 01:39:10,802 ♪ All of them on the make ♪ 1623 01:39:10,802 --> 01:39:13,971 ♪ All of them out to make a million ♪ 1624 01:39:13,971 --> 01:39:18,465 ♪ By the time they hit thirteen ♪ 1625 01:39:18,465 --> 01:39:22,455 ♪ And it's all in the colour of the old sun setting ♪ 1626 01:39:22,455 --> 01:39:25,952 ♪ This brand new age of bloodletting ♪ 1627 01:39:25,952 --> 01:39:30,035 ♪ And it's all in the eyes of me ♪ 1628 01:39:54,762 --> 01:39:58,593 ♪ I'm suspicious of my wife ♪ 1629 01:39:58,593 --> 01:40:02,231 ♪ I suspect she left long ago ♪ 1630 01:40:02,231 --> 01:40:05,820 ♪ I recall my finger on the button of the ejector seat ♪ 1631 01:40:05,820 --> 01:40:10,022 ♪ But I can't recall letting her go ♪ 1632 01:40:10,022 --> 01:40:14,012 ♪ The electric Christ has canonised her ♪ 1633 01:40:14,012 --> 01:40:17,689 ♪ She's surrounded by a chemical glow ♪ 1634 01:40:17,689 --> 01:40:21,782 ♪ It has to be said ♪ 1635 01:40:21,782 --> 01:40:26,752 ♪ It's today's edition of the book of the dead ♪ 1636 01:40:26,752 --> 01:40:29,752 ♪ It has to be said ♪ 1637 01:40:31,041 --> 01:40:34,541 (guitar strumming gently) 1638 01:41:23,571 --> 01:41:27,509 - There's a version of You Are My Sunshine 1639 01:41:27,509 --> 01:41:31,009 by Brian Ferry from like 1973 or something 1640 01:41:32,913 --> 01:41:36,801 and he just makes it the most appallingly 1641 01:41:36,801 --> 01:41:40,968 sorrowful song that you've ever heard in your life 1642 01:41:42,312 --> 01:41:44,952 and it's incredibly slow and it goes 1643 01:41:44,952 --> 01:41:47,543 for about seven minutes or something 1644 01:41:47,543 --> 01:41:50,568 and it's just so fantastic because 1645 01:41:50,568 --> 01:41:52,901 this song that has become... 1646 01:41:55,399 --> 01:41:58,899 The virtue of the use of the word sunshine 1647 01:42:00,930 --> 01:42:04,347 has become perceived as something that is 1648 01:42:09,351 --> 01:42:12,711 upbeat but it's actually about someone 1649 01:42:12,711 --> 01:42:15,878 who dies and is consequently very sad. 1650 01:42:20,373 --> 01:42:23,290 And I think The Carnival Is Over is 1651 01:42:28,307 --> 01:42:30,474 intrinsically, achingly sad. 1652 01:42:43,515 --> 01:42:45,682 (ticking) 1653 01:42:49,303 --> 01:42:52,685 I step through the gates of St Louis Cathedral 1654 01:42:52,685 --> 01:42:55,685 I'm surrounded by an absence of rows 1655 01:42:58,038 --> 01:43:02,219 cathedral rears up before me, huge and calm. 1656 01:43:02,219 --> 01:43:05,505 Cypress trees bear witness to nothing 1657 01:43:05,505 --> 01:43:10,447 sway and ruffled, slow dancing on the wind of rain 1658 01:43:10,447 --> 01:43:15,447 and I know, I know that every clock, watch and chronograph 1659 01:43:15,729 --> 01:43:19,312 just snap to the grid and it's now 11:22 AM 1660 01:43:24,549 --> 01:43:28,665 my second step down the park the sun comes out. 1661 01:43:28,665 --> 01:43:30,582 Bright and stolen gold. 1662 01:43:32,445 --> 01:43:35,278 I inhale deeply, there is no sound 1663 01:43:37,499 --> 01:43:41,527 but the rush and crackle of burning tobacco. 1664 01:43:41,527 --> 01:43:44,605 I look up at the sky's reflection 1665 01:43:44,605 --> 01:43:47,438 pools of water glisten at my feet. 1666 01:43:48,578 --> 01:43:51,219 For one small moment the silence is broken 1667 01:43:51,219 --> 01:43:54,302 by a sound hard and fast at my heels. 1668 01:43:55,755 --> 01:43:58,989 In that moment I'm impossibly quiet 1669 01:43:58,989 --> 01:44:01,775 and heavy and heavier than I can bear. 1670 01:44:01,775 --> 01:44:04,520 They sky tilts on it's axis 1671 01:44:04,520 --> 01:44:07,853 and I'm staring straight into it's mould. 1672 01:44:08,719 --> 01:44:12,537 I close my eyes and look into heaven. 1673 01:44:12,537 --> 01:44:15,120 The sun explodes behind my eyes 1674 01:44:17,875 --> 01:44:20,625 a heartbeat and the sky goes out. 1675 01:44:22,617 --> 01:44:24,950 In another they're all gone. 1676 01:44:26,168 --> 01:44:29,501 Angels hall I feel a shadow form over me 1677 01:44:32,643 --> 01:44:35,226 and my eyes can no longer open. 1678 01:44:37,125 --> 01:44:41,458 As I stare up into awaken blue, there is no weather. 1679 01:44:42,334 --> 01:44:45,751 And I realise that for the first time now 1680 01:44:47,919 --> 01:44:49,502 I am only in dream. 1681 01:44:51,209 --> 01:44:54,709 (gentle orchestral music) 1682 01:45:33,321 --> 01:45:34,571 Rowland Howard. 1683 01:45:51,222 --> 01:45:56,222 (Autoluminecent by Rowland S Howard playing) 1684 01:46:08,073 --> 01:46:12,149 ♪ I am blinding ♪ 1685 01:46:12,149 --> 01:46:16,263 ♪ Autoluminescent ♪ 1686 01:46:16,263 --> 01:46:20,426 ♪ I am white heat ♪ 1687 01:46:20,426 --> 01:46:24,714 ♪ I am heaven sent ♪ 1688 01:46:24,714 --> 01:46:28,193 ♪ I was a nightmare ♪ 1689 01:46:28,193 --> 01:46:32,473 ♪ I'm not gonna go there ♪ 1690 01:46:32,473 --> 01:46:34,473 ♪ Again ♪ 1691 01:46:49,623 --> 01:46:53,593 ♪ Into the black hole ♪ 1692 01:46:53,593 --> 01:46:57,884 ♪ The house of no contest ♪ 1693 01:46:57,884 --> 01:47:01,884 ♪ Make mine a meteor ♪ 1694 01:47:01,884 --> 01:47:05,692 ♪ Rise me above the rest ♪ 1695 01:47:05,692 --> 01:47:09,982 ♪ I'm soaring through outer space ♪ 1696 01:47:09,982 --> 01:47:13,684 ♪ There is no better place ♪ 1697 01:47:13,684 --> 01:47:15,684 ♪ To be ♪ 1698 01:47:29,931 --> 01:47:33,964 ♪ I'm bigger than Jesus Christ ♪ 1699 01:47:33,964 --> 01:47:38,313 ♪ I'm greater than God in light ♪ 1700 01:47:38,313 --> 01:47:42,012 ♪ I am dangerous ♪ 1701 01:47:42,012 --> 01:47:45,833 ♪ I cut like the sharpest knife ♪ 1702 01:47:45,833 --> 01:47:49,862 ♪ I'm going nova ♪ 1703 01:47:49,862 --> 01:47:54,570 ♪ And I hope I can hold her ♪ 1704 01:47:54,570 --> 01:47:56,320 ♪ In ♪ 1705 01:48:10,802 --> 01:48:14,633 ♪ Into the darkness ♪ 1706 01:48:14,633 --> 01:48:18,844 ♪ I gave away myself ♪ 1707 01:48:18,844 --> 01:48:22,873 ♪ Slipped on the spiral stairs ♪ 1708 01:48:22,873 --> 01:48:26,833 ♪ Tumbling down the well ♪ 1709 01:48:26,833 --> 01:48:31,084 ♪ I fell on a soft spot ♪ 1710 01:48:31,084 --> 01:48:34,572 ♪ I'm white heat, I'm white hot ♪ 1711 01:48:34,572 --> 01:48:39,572 ♪ Again ♪ 1712 01:48:42,803 --> 01:48:45,053 ♪ Again... ♪